4 ms·

I love the dilemma faced by a large block of U.S. citizens: if you support the Ukrainian cause and U.S. military aid to Ukraine do you then support Anduril, a l

by yinser 3y ago

I love the dilemma faced by a large block of U.S. citizens: if you support the Ukrainian cause and U.S. military aid to Ukraine do you then support Anduril, a leading drone innovator during the largest drone war ever seen? Judging by the other comments posted here it appears difficult to let Palmer off the hook for his political donations to The Wrong Party which got him fired from Meta. Which Way, Western Man?

threeseed 3y ago
I think most people care about Ukraine defending itself against Russia aggression. Whatever is needed to support that is a secondary consideration. Also it is illegal to be fired for your political views. In the case of Palmer it was more likely because of his incompetence over the Zenimax situation: https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-real-reason-palmer-luckey-was-fired-from-facebook/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-real-reason-palmer-luckey-...
meheleventyone 3y ago
Aren’t you inventing this schadenfreude? The innovation in Ukraine seems more local and low-cost based on commercial tech as well as providing modern cruise missiles. Right now Anduril aren’t having any impact on that conflict?
- MikusR 3y ago
  Anduril drones were in one of aid packages
  - meheleventyone 3y ago
    It would have been helpful to include a link so here you go: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/cutting-edge-drones-headed-to-ukraine-in-latest-us-aid/ https://www.airandspaceforces.com/cutting-edge-drones-headed... Also details some of the other drones promised in the same aid package and that Ukraine would like the battle proven, more capable larger drones.
baybal2 3y ago
> if you support the Ukrainian cause and U.S. military aid to Ukraine do you then support Anduril, a leading drone innovator during the largest drone war ever seen? You should support the cause, but to begin with you should know if they are real. So far, for the amount of PR we see, it's a company without a single widget sold, but megatons of very photoshopy looking photos, and 3D animations. And Palmer Luckey, you know his reputation. Anduril was previously caught passing off a Chinese toy helicopter as his own invention https://ibb.co/8DT5JMc https://ibb.co/8DT5JMc . What it seems they did was to wrap a Chinese toy into a "military looking" sheet metal, with anodized trinkets glued on. I see the same parts in RC toy stores all the time. The largest manufacturers of drones for Ukraine are Polish, and Ukrainians themselves. They are already reaching into tens of thousands. For recon, DJI are still the best due to excellent Sony cameras they have. US can directly fund Ukrainian drone makers and have far bigger effect immediately, but better focus on what others can't: very large drones like Global Hawks, Reapers, and fighter jets. And ammo issue, USA is not making even 1% of what it can. Even bombed out Ukraine now manufactures more ammo for itself than USA makes after billions sank into paperwork needed to expand the production, but only tiny actual investment into factories expansion.
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  > So far, for the amount of PR we see, it's a company without a single widget sold, but megatons of very photoshopy looking photos, and 3D animations. Anduril Industries won a nearly $1 billion contract to do counter-unmanned systems work for Special Operations Command, the Department of Defense announced Thursday - https://fedscoop.com/anduril-nabs-1b-contract-for-anti-drone-work-with-socom/ https://fedscoop.com/anduril-nabs-1b-contract-for-anti-drone.... Except you know something we don't know, in which case you can report to the US military and claim a big whistleblower award..
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
md_ 3y ago
I'm struggling to understand your point. Is it that someone who a) believes the best path to peace and stability in the region is a Ukrainian defeat of Russia and b) also opposes Donald Trump's, say, tax policy has a "dilemma" in whether to support military aid that goes to Anduril (and thus, ultimately, potentially to Trump's re-election)? If so, this seems like a pretty facile point. Like, life is full of pros and cons. I want to leave my umbrella at home so my bag is lighter, but I want to have it with me if it rains. WHICH WAY, WESTERN MAN!?! In a democracy, you sometimes have to do business with people with whom you disagree. You also might try to avoid doing business with them, all else being equal. WHICH WAY?! I dunno. I feel like you thought you had some sort of deep philosophical point, but I'm not getting it I guess?
- dbmikus 3y ago
  Not the OP, but I think the stated point is that some people are strictly against the development of products for the military and warfare, but then support situations when those products are used. I'm in kind of a similar boat, where personally I would not want to ever work on weapons, but at the same time admit their necessity. My hope over time is that conflict becomes less violent and more economic, but induced poverty also has deadly consequences...
  - md_ 3y ago
    I suspect the number of people who believe in total unilateral disarmament and military aid to Ukraine--yes, I agree that's an internally inconsistent point of view--is vanishingly small, and not, as @yinser snarkily wrote, "a large block of US citizens." No doubt there are a far larger number who find weapons development distasteful or would not personally want to work on weapons, but nonetheless recognize it as an unfortunate but pragmatic necessity. I suppose, if one were given to inane Internet snark, one might say, "Haha, you refuse to become a proctologist, yet you go for your colonoscopy. WHICH WAY WESTERN MAN?" But, frankly, that would make you look stupid, just like @yinser does.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

by yinser 3y ago

threeseed 3y ago

I think most people care about Ukraine defending itself against Russia aggression. Whatever is needed to support that is a secondary consideration. Also it is illegal to be fired for your political views. In the case of Palmer it was more likely because of his incompetence over the Zenimax situation: https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-real-reason-palmer-luckey-was-fired-from-facebook/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-real-reason-palmer-luckey-...

meheleventyone 3y ago

Aren’t you inventing this schadenfreude? The innovation in Ukraine seems more local and low-cost based on commercial tech as well as providing modern cruise missiles. Right now Anduril aren’t having any impact on that conflict?

MikusR 3y ago
Anduril drones were in one of aid packages
- meheleventyone 3y ago
  It would have been helpful to include a link so here you go: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/cutting-edge-drones-headed-to-ukraine-in-latest-us-aid/ https://www.airandspaceforces.com/cutting-edge-drones-headed... Also details some of the other drones promised in the same aid package and that Ukraine would like the battle proven, more capable larger drones.

baybal2 3y ago

> if you support the Ukrainian cause and U.S. military aid to Ukraine do you then support Anduril, a leading drone innovator during the largest drone war ever seen? You should support the cause, but to begin with you should know if they are real. So far, for the amount of PR we see, it's a company without a single widget sold, but megatons of very photoshopy looking photos, and 3D animations. And Palmer Luckey, you know his reputation. Anduril was previously caught passing off a Chinese toy helicopter as his own invention https://ibb.co/8DT5JMc https://ibb.co/8DT5JMc . What it seems they did was to wrap a Chinese toy into a "military looking" sheet metal, with anodized trinkets glued on. I see the same parts in RC toy stores all the time. The largest manufacturers of drones for Ukraine are Polish, and Ukrainians themselves. They are already reaching into tens of thousands. For recon, DJI are still the best due to excellent Sony cameras they have. US can directly fund Ukrainian drone makers and have far bigger effect immediately, but better focus on what others can't: very large drones like Global Hawks, Reapers, and fighter jets. And ammo issue, USA is not making even 1% of what it can. Even bombed out Ukraine now manufactures more ammo for itself than USA makes after billions sank into paperwork needed to expand the production, but only tiny actual investment into factories expansion.

boeingUH60 3y ago
> So far, for the amount of PR we see, it's a company without a single widget sold, but megatons of very photoshopy looking photos, and 3D animations. Anduril Industries won a nearly $1 billion contract to do counter-unmanned systems work for Special Operations Command, the Department of Defense announced Thursday - https://fedscoop.com/anduril-nabs-1b-contract-for-anti-drone-work-with-socom/ https://fedscoop.com/anduril-nabs-1b-contract-for-anti-drone.... Except you know something we don't know, in which case you can report to the US military and claim a big whistleblower award..

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

md_ 3y ago

I'm struggling to understand your point. Is it that someone who a) believes the best path to peace and stability in the region is a Ukrainian defeat of Russia and b) also opposes Donald Trump's, say, tax policy has a "dilemma" in whether to support military aid that goes to Anduril (and thus, ultimately, potentially to Trump's re-election)? If so, this seems like a pretty facile point. Like, life is full of pros and cons. I want to leave my umbrella at home so my bag is lighter, but I want to have it with me if it rains. WHICH WAY, WESTERN MAN!?! In a democracy, you sometimes have to do business with people with whom you disagree. You also might try to avoid doing business with them, all else being equal. WHICH WAY?! I dunno. I feel like you thought you had some sort of deep philosophical point, but I'm not getting it I guess?

dbmikus 3y ago
Not the OP, but I think the stated point is that some people are strictly against the development of products for the military and warfare, but then support situations when those products are used. I'm in kind of a similar boat, where personally I would not want to ever work on weapons, but at the same time admit their necessity. My hope over time is that conflict becomes less violent and more economic, but induced poverty also has deadly consequences...
- md_ 3y ago
  I suspect the number of people who believe in total unilateral disarmament and military aid to Ukraine--yes, I agree that's an internally inconsistent point of view--is vanishingly small, and not, as @yinser snarkily wrote, "a large block of US citizens." No doubt there are a far larger number who find weapons development distasteful or would not personally want to work on weapons, but nonetheless recognize it as an unfortunate but pragmatic necessity. I suppose, if one were given to inane Internet snark, one might say, "Haha, you refuse to become a proctologist, yet you go for your colonoscopy. WHICH WAY WESTERN MAN?" But, frankly, that would make you look stupid, just like @yinser does.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]