3 ms·

Batteries probably work for this, though prices will have to drop a little more for this. For seasonal storage, pumped storage and chemical (power to gas) are

Batteries probably work for this, though prices will have to drop a little more for this. For seasonal storage, pumped storage and chemical (power to gas) are the more likely solutions. However, if might turn out that simply overbuilding solar is more cost effective than a lot of seasonal storage. And yes, you will always need backup generation capacity based on gas. But those plants can be inefficient and cheaply built, since they won’t run many hours in the year.

djaychela 3y ago
>And yes, you will always need backup generation capacity based on gas Always is doing a lot of work in that sentence. I would disagree on the longer term. Deep geothermal for one technology has the capacity to stop us needing gas for such use, and given enough storage, I think the whole system of operation will change.
- XorNot 3y ago
  If you have deep geothermal you don't need the solar panels though. It's more cost-effective to build a geothermal plant that you run at full power all the time (because you sell energy by the kWh) rather then trying to cycle it up and down.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Build enough geothermal to run base night load, use solar+wind+hydro+battery storage for day demand (and install a ton of electrolyzers to catch the unused electricity in overproduction times), keep a small reserve fleet of biogas/power-to-gas powered plants for emergencies, and get as many of the large consumers (as well as private loads such as ACs, EV chargers) as possible to agree on dynamic load shedding.
    - elihu 3y ago
      That does make sense; while you could run the geothermal 24/7, you might actually be better off only running it when you need to, since (as I understand it) geothermal can actually use up all the usable heat in an area, which can take a long time to "recharge" through conduction from surrounding rock.
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        Fun fact: if you do it right, you can reverse the geothermal heat pump to store energy in the form of heat in the ground in overproduction (i.e. zero or negative electricity rate) times. Heat pumps are pretty awesome.
makeshitup 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- bottlepalm 3y ago
  Batteries are within an order of magnitude of significantly cutting fossile fuel usage in California at least: https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html#section-supply-trend https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html#sectio... Very scalable. It’s happening right now and accelerating.
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- poopbutt7 3y ago
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- coding123 3y ago
  I don't see it this way. It's democratized. Each person is slowly going to get batteries as they try to avoid skyrocketing and unfair income based fees that are being introduced. The ultimate goal is to get off the grid, then get your friends off the grid, and so on and so forth. Cheap prismatic batteries from China baby. Price still have a bit to go, but it's very close.
  - Lio 3y ago
    > Cheap prismatic batteries from China baby. Cheap, slave made batteries from China baby... but we'll just skip over that part, eh? They're cheap because some bugger ain't getting paid. Then there's the added bonus that that artificial cheapness drives everybody else out of the market. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/business/economy/forced-labor-china-supply-chain.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/business/economy/forced-l...
- 3y ago

djaychela 3y ago

>And yes, you will always need backup generation capacity based on gas Always is doing a lot of work in that sentence. I would disagree on the longer term. Deep geothermal for one technology has the capacity to stop us needing gas for such use, and given enough storage, I think the whole system of operation will change.

XorNot 3y ago
If you have deep geothermal you don't need the solar panels though. It's more cost-effective to build a geothermal plant that you run at full power all the time (because you sell energy by the kWh) rather then trying to cycle it up and down.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Build enough geothermal to run base night load, use solar+wind+hydro+battery storage for day demand (and install a ton of electrolyzers to catch the unused electricity in overproduction times), keep a small reserve fleet of biogas/power-to-gas powered plants for emergencies, and get as many of the large consumers (as well as private loads such as ACs, EV chargers) as possible to agree on dynamic load shedding.
  - elihu 3y ago
    That does make sense; while you could run the geothermal 24/7, you might actually be better off only running it when you need to, since (as I understand it) geothermal can actually use up all the usable heat in an area, which can take a long time to "recharge" through conduction from surrounding rock.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Fun fact: if you do it right, you can reverse the geothermal heat pump to store energy in the form of heat in the ground in overproduction (i.e. zero or negative electricity rate) times. Heat pumps are pretty awesome.

makeshitup 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bottlepalm 3y ago
Batteries are within an order of magnitude of significantly cutting fossile fuel usage in California at least: https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html#section-supply-trend https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html#sectio... Very scalable. It’s happening right now and accelerating.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
poopbutt7 3y ago
[dead]
coding123 3y ago
I don't see it this way. It's democratized. Each person is slowly going to get batteries as they try to avoid skyrocketing and unfair income based fees that are being introduced. The ultimate goal is to get off the grid, then get your friends off the grid, and so on and so forth. Cheap prismatic batteries from China baby. Price still have a bit to go, but it's very close.
- Lio 3y ago
  > Cheap prismatic batteries from China baby. Cheap, slave made batteries from China baby... but we'll just skip over that part, eh? They're cheap because some bugger ain't getting paid. Then there's the added bonus that that artificial cheapness drives everybody else out of the market. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/business/economy/forced-labor-china-supply-chain.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/business/economy/forced-l...
3y ago