3 ms·

> I guess no one was willing to put in the infrastructure. This is kind of surprising. I remember when I was a kid (not that many decades ago), things like mil

> I guess no one was willing to put in the infrastructure. This is kind of surprising. I remember when I was a kid (not that many decades ago), things like milk, soda, yogurt etc. would come in glass or ceramic bottles under a subscription service. [For context this wasn't in the US] Every time the delivery day came, you would set out (sometimes a crate of) empty bottles that were then exchanged for the same amount of filled bottles. They'd then wash and sterilize the old bottles centrally and refill and recap for a future delivery. Thing is, I don't recall buying drinks this way being more expensive per-bottle than what it costs today. Perhaps slightly more inconvenient since you had to remember to set out the old bottles, but it's not like people don't do that anyways today with their recycling...

pvorb 3y ago
I live in Germany and I just buy milk, soda, water and yogurt in glass bottles from my local supermarket. All are from companies less than 50 kilometers away and will be washed and reused several times. So there are places in the world, where this is still possible, although there no longer is a delivery service. But it's more expensive than plastic bottles and even more expensive than single-use plastic, so the majority uses plastic alternatives. Most milk here comes in some kind of cardboard containers that are mixed with a lot of plastic.
- sam_lowry_ 3y ago
  >some kind of cardboard containers >that are mixed with a lot of plastic. Tetrapak?
  - jabbany 3y ago
    I've heard that tetrapak are like the worst type of material to recycle. IIRC they're a combo of paper, aluminum foil, and a plastic inner coating. Individually, the paper and aluminum are relatively easily recyclable, but I recall seeing somewhere that because it's all bound into a single material, the labor/energy cost to separate the layers of tetrapak for recycling end up not worth it and it just ends up in landfills...
    - pvorb 3y ago
      Yeah. Also Tetrapak (the company) is lying about the recycling ratio in order to avoid collecting "Pfand" for beverages. If the recycling ratio for a bottle/can/container is less than 70 percent in order to increase the number of container that make it back to the reseller. That's why there's no Pfand for milk in Tetrapaks, but you need to pay Pfand for milk in glass bottles.
  - pvorb 3y ago
    Yes, Tetrapak.
- jabbany 3y ago
  That's why I'm curious... I feel like people figured out how to do this in the past in a cost effective way (even including delivery!) but then we somehow moved away to something (arguably) worse. My hypothesis here would be perhaps the increasing abundance of choice makes it inefficient, since the main drawback I recall was that there was just like 1-2 local providers that handled each type of thing rather than like the 4 brands of milk we get at supermarkets today [in the US]. Though, I can't see why modern supply chains couldn't be refitted to handle this? E.g. your package delivery person / mailman also recovers the reusable containers etc.

pvorb 3y ago

I live in Germany and I just buy milk, soda, water and yogurt in glass bottles from my local supermarket. All are from companies less than 50 kilometers away and will be washed and reused several times. So there are places in the world, where this is still possible, although there no longer is a delivery service. But it's more expensive than plastic bottles and even more expensive than single-use plastic, so the majority uses plastic alternatives. Most milk here comes in some kind of cardboard containers that are mixed with a lot of plastic.

sam_lowry_ 3y ago
>some kind of cardboard containers >that are mixed with a lot of plastic. Tetrapak?
- jabbany 3y ago
  I've heard that tetrapak are like the worst type of material to recycle. IIRC they're a combo of paper, aluminum foil, and a plastic inner coating. Individually, the paper and aluminum are relatively easily recyclable, but I recall seeing somewhere that because it's all bound into a single material, the labor/energy cost to separate the layers of tetrapak for recycling end up not worth it and it just ends up in landfills...
  - pvorb 3y ago
    Yeah. Also Tetrapak (the company) is lying about the recycling ratio in order to avoid collecting "Pfand" for beverages. If the recycling ratio for a bottle/can/container is less than 70 percent in order to increase the number of container that make it back to the reseller. That's why there's no Pfand for milk in Tetrapaks, but you need to pay Pfand for milk in glass bottles.
- pvorb 3y ago
  Yes, Tetrapak.
jabbany 3y ago
That's why I'm curious... I feel like people figured out how to do this in the past in a cost effective way (even including delivery!) but then we somehow moved away to something (arguably) worse. My hypothesis here would be perhaps the increasing abundance of choice makes it inefficient, since the main drawback I recall was that there was just like 1-2 local providers that handled each type of thing rather than like the 4 brands of milk we get at supermarkets today [in the US]. Though, I can't see why modern supply chains couldn't be refitted to handle this? E.g. your package delivery person / mailman also recovers the reusable containers etc.