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Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient mod

Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation.

datameta 3y ago
I believe walking is as important as meditation for self-regulation of organ systems (including brain and heart).
- datameta 3y ago
  An addendum: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/feeling-it/201309/20-scientific-reasons-to-start-meditating-today https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/feeling-it/201309/20... https://www.healthline.com/health/benefits-of-walking#energy-boost https://www.healthline.com/health/benefits-of-walking#energy...
taude 3y ago
What's weird though, is that we're on average living a lot longer than we were 50 years ago. So how is that slowly killing us? [1] [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life... I'm guessing it trends similarly for other countries. EDIT: Not that I'm against walking and cycling (I don't own a car). But to say that this is causing less lifespan...
- kiba 3y ago
  Just because our lifespan is getting longer doesn't mean that something in our society and environment isn't contributing to our premature death. If our lifespan average starts at 30, and then 10 years later, the average becomes 40, doesn't mean we eliminated all factors causing us to live shorter lives.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    If in a span of only 10 years the average lifespan rose by 10 years, it means you'd eliminated most of the factors causing the population to live shorter lives.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  Relatively less than it could be when compared to other countries with less wealth per capita. The US is the wealthiest large country per capita, and yet we aren't the healthiest or longest lived. What's all this wealth for if poorer people are living better and longer lives?
  - geraldwhen 3y ago
    The US is far more diverse than most other countries. There is no “we” with respect to demographic health data.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      This isn’t relevant. Americans die earlier than the British across the entire income distribution, despite earning significantly more on average.
- alwayslikethis 3y ago
  Traffic accidents are among the top causes of death in the US. Many diseases are also caused by a sedentary lifestyle (not walking enough), among other things caused by the car.
  - skeeter2020 3y ago
    don't disagree but a big part of this is we've gotten so good a preventing a lot of the other causes of death these have increased to fill the gap. Also, I'm definitely not sedentary, but absolutely hate walking. They're not orthogonal.
- wzdd 3y ago
  A bucket is filling with water at a rate of 3 drops per second. However, the bucket has a hole which is releasing water at a rate of one drop per second. The water level is nonetheless rising. If we plugged the hole, it would rise more rapidly.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
all2 3y ago
How are the EV battery cells handling the cold? I know from personal experience that a cold battery has much reduced capacity.
- metal_am 3y ago
  They’re usually actively heated/cooled
- lb1lf 3y ago
  It is my understanding they are insulated and heated/cooled as needed; the performance loss from being cold is much larger than the energy expenditure to heat the cells to an optimum temperature. Around where I live, we have several weeks of -15C - -25C (5F - -13F) every winter. No worries for the EV owners, they just need to charge a bit more often as they need to heat the interior of the car, too... (Not being afforded the dubious luxury of simply utilizing the waste heat from the engine, as I do for the time being in my diesel...)
vinni2 3y ago
Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.
- anonporridge 3y ago
  Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
  - vinni2 3y ago
    Norway is not Netherlands. Try biking in -20 C and go shopping for a family on a bike. Where I live bike paths are not regularly cleared they can get icy and dangerous. Public transport is the way to go. Biking can complement when and where possible. I say this as a person who commutes to work with bike everyday.
    - anonporridge 3y ago
      If you watched the video I linked, you would find every point you just made here dismantled.
      - vinni2 3y ago
        I have seen this video and in the examples he gives they clear the bike paths. Where I live when it snows it’s just impossible to bike. In heavy snow it’s like biking on the sand. And sometimes when the temperatures fluctuate there is black ice I have to worry about. Some bike paths get salted but not all so it’s not a safe continuous ride at least for my commute.
        anonporridge 3y ago
        The primary point of the video, is that when adequate infrastructure and servicing (plowing and de icing) exists, very cold, harsh weather doesn't decrease bike ridership. In the example city, Oulu Finland, they see a consistent 22% ridership all the way down to -20C, because they incentivize cycling with well designed and maintained infrastructure.
rickydroll 3y ago
it all depends on your lifestyle. A big piece of my reason to live is being able to get out in the woods or get to a dark sky site and sit out under the stars. People crowded places are not good for me from a mental and physical health perspective. Living in or around city spaces raise my blood pressure to unsafe levels. It only takes living a couple weeks in a quiet place to bring my blood pressure come back down to healthy levels. It doesn't matter how much I walk or bike in a city. No amount of exercise or stress management techniques brings my blood pressure back down. I will continue to live at edge of cities because I do need some of the medical services found in them but, living in them, well that's saying I'm ready to die.
avgcorrection 3y ago
Either this article is contentless compared to the press release or the press release itself is just based on platitudes. Don't fucking “incentivize” alternatives to the five-seater. Architecture it. Make more of the urban area car-free.[1] Make other modes of transportation superior except for things like emergency care. Am I holding my breath for cheap bus fares and actual bikelanes? Not exactly. The usual fare is to keep maintaining and upgrading the road network with only automobiles in mind and then act surprised when people keep choosing the mode of transporation that the infrastructure was built around. Cheaper EVs was a nice way to pander to the middle class. There is less of a reason to pander to people who either don't own a car or can't afford the more expensive (at least back then) EVs. That's why there is less of a chance to see cheaper bus fares. > EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. > Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation. Many people who work in Oslo can't afford to live in Oslo (I'm sure many can relate). Then they get stuck in traffic for hours a day because many others, you know, live outside of the bikeable/walkable core. Commuting home from perhaps a sedentary job. Then this gets labeled as a matter of lifestyle. What the hell? [1] https://www.oslo.kommune.no/byutvikling/bilfritt-byliv/ https://www.oslo.kommune.no/byutvikling/bilfritt-byliv/
- ambicapter 3y ago
  It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. If the living space is architected the way it is, people will gravitate towards the most convenient method to access it (cars). If you prioritize re-architecting you will find it difficult to move people already invested in the depreciating asset which is their vehicle, out of it. At the same time they won't move out of their car until the other transportation options are, if not equally, at least somewhat close to convenient. So basically you need to tug a little on both sides, have fewer people using cars, then it's easier to make changes that affect those cars in favor of greener transport architecture, cycle and repeat.
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
At least in the article, I didn't see anything mentioned about incentivizing cycling or walking (or infrastructure investments to support them). They're simply reducing subsidies to EVs, which will only be slightly less heavily subsidized compared to ICE vehicles. Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article?
- capableweb 3y ago
  > Norwegian Transport Minister Jon-Ivar Nygard said in the statement: > "Electric cars give us greener transport, but they also have a clear intermodal competition with public transport in urban areas. We must make it more attractive to travel by public transport, cycle, and walk." I don't find that statement anywhere though, but that's from the article. I think that means they're working on doing something about it, but haven't reached any proposals yet.
- zx8080 3y ago
  > Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article? It's not "they", it's winter. If you don't move, you're frozen. And soon dead. So no EV - have to walk. Or cycle. Or public transport.
  - kogepathic 3y ago
    > It's not "they", it's winter. Somehow the residents of Oulu find a way to cycle in winter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU > If you don't move, you're frozen. Good thing cycling and walking involve moving.

datameta 3y ago

I believe walking is as important as meditation for self-regulation of organ systems (including brain and heart).

datameta 3y ago
An addendum: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/feeling-it/201309/20-scientific-reasons-to-start-meditating-today https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/feeling-it/201309/20... https://www.healthline.com/health/benefits-of-walking#energy-boost https://www.healthline.com/health/benefits-of-walking#energy...

taude 3y ago

What's weird though, is that we're on average living a lot longer than we were 50 years ago. So how is that slowly killing us? [1] [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life... I'm guessing it trends similarly for other countries. EDIT: Not that I'm against walking and cycling (I don't own a car). But to say that this is causing less lifespan...

kiba 3y ago
Just because our lifespan is getting longer doesn't mean that something in our society and environment isn't contributing to our premature death. If our lifespan average starts at 30, and then 10 years later, the average becomes 40, doesn't mean we eliminated all factors causing us to live shorter lives.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  If in a span of only 10 years the average lifespan rose by 10 years, it means you'd eliminated most of the factors causing the population to live shorter lives.
anonporridge 3y ago
Relatively less than it could be when compared to other countries with less wealth per capita. The US is the wealthiest large country per capita, and yet we aren't the healthiest or longest lived. What's all this wealth for if poorer people are living better and longer lives?
- geraldwhen 3y ago
  The US is far more diverse than most other countries. There is no “we” with respect to demographic health data.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    This isn’t relevant. Americans die earlier than the British across the entire income distribution, despite earning significantly more on average.
alwayslikethis 3y ago
Traffic accidents are among the top causes of death in the US. Many diseases are also caused by a sedentary lifestyle (not walking enough), among other things caused by the car.
- skeeter2020 3y ago
  don't disagree but a big part of this is we've gotten so good a preventing a lot of the other causes of death these have increased to fill the gap. Also, I'm definitely not sedentary, but absolutely hate walking. They're not orthogonal.
wzdd 3y ago
A bucket is filling with water at a rate of 3 drops per second. However, the bucket has a hole which is releasing water at a rate of one drop per second. The water level is nonetheless rising. If we plugged the hole, it would rise more rapidly.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

all2 3y ago

How are the EV battery cells handling the cold? I know from personal experience that a cold battery has much reduced capacity.

metal_am 3y ago
They’re usually actively heated/cooled
lb1lf 3y ago
It is my understanding they are insulated and heated/cooled as needed; the performance loss from being cold is much larger than the energy expenditure to heat the cells to an optimum temperature. Around where I live, we have several weeks of -15C - -25C (5F - -13F) every winter. No worries for the EV owners, they just need to charge a bit more often as they need to heat the interior of the car, too... (Not being afforded the dubious luxury of simply utilizing the waste heat from the engine, as I do for the time being in my diesel...)

vinni2 3y ago

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

anonporridge 3y ago
Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
- vinni2 3y ago
  Norway is not Netherlands. Try biking in -20 C and go shopping for a family on a bike. Where I live bike paths are not regularly cleared they can get icy and dangerous. Public transport is the way to go. Biking can complement when and where possible. I say this as a person who commutes to work with bike everyday.
  - anonporridge 3y ago
    If you watched the video I linked, you would find every point you just made here dismantled.
    - vinni2 3y ago
      I have seen this video and in the examples he gives they clear the bike paths. Where I live when it snows it’s just impossible to bike. In heavy snow it’s like biking on the sand. And sometimes when the temperatures fluctuate there is black ice I have to worry about. Some bike paths get salted but not all so it’s not a safe continuous ride at least for my commute.
      - anonporridge 3y ago
        The primary point of the video, is that when adequate infrastructure and servicing (plowing and de icing) exists, very cold, harsh weather doesn't decrease bike ridership. In the example city, Oulu Finland, they see a consistent 22% ridership all the way down to -20C, because they incentivize cycling with well designed and maintained infrastructure.

rickydroll 3y ago

it all depends on your lifestyle. A big piece of my reason to live is being able to get out in the woods or get to a dark sky site and sit out under the stars. People crowded places are not good for me from a mental and physical health perspective. Living in or around city spaces raise my blood pressure to unsafe levels. It only takes living a couple weeks in a quiet place to bring my blood pressure come back down to healthy levels. It doesn't matter how much I walk or bike in a city. No amount of exercise or stress management techniques brings my blood pressure back down. I will continue to live at edge of cities because I do need some of the medical services found in them but, living in them, well that's saying I'm ready to die.

avgcorrection 3y ago

Either this article is contentless compared to the press release or the press release itself is just based on platitudes. Don't fucking “incentivize” alternatives to the five-seater. Architecture it. Make more of the urban area car-free.[1] Make other modes of transportation superior except for things like emergency care. Am I holding my breath for cheap bus fares and actual bikelanes? Not exactly. The usual fare is to keep maintaining and upgrading the road network with only automobiles in mind and then act surprised when people keep choosing the mode of transporation that the infrastructure was built around. Cheaper EVs was a nice way to pander to the middle class. There is less of a reason to pander to people who either don't own a car or can't afford the more expensive (at least back then) EVs. That's why there is less of a chance to see cheaper bus fares. > EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. > Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation. Many people who work in Oslo can't afford to live in Oslo (I'm sure many can relate). Then they get stuck in traffic for hours a day because many others, you know, live outside of the bikeable/walkable core. Commuting home from perhaps a sedentary job. Then this gets labeled as a matter of lifestyle. What the hell? [1] https://www.oslo.kommune.no/byutvikling/bilfritt-byliv/ https://www.oslo.kommune.no/byutvikling/bilfritt-byliv/

ambicapter 3y ago
It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. If the living space is architected the way it is, people will gravitate towards the most convenient method to access it (cars). If you prioritize re-architecting you will find it difficult to move people already invested in the depreciating asset which is their vehicle, out of it. At the same time they won't move out of their car until the other transportation options are, if not equally, at least somewhat close to convenient. So basically you need to tug a little on both sides, have fewer people using cars, then it's easier to make changes that affect those cars in favor of greener transport architecture, cycle and repeat.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

At least in the article, I didn't see anything mentioned about incentivizing cycling or walking (or infrastructure investments to support them). They're simply reducing subsidies to EVs, which will only be slightly less heavily subsidized compared to ICE vehicles. Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article?

capableweb 3y ago
> Norwegian Transport Minister Jon-Ivar Nygard said in the statement: > "Electric cars give us greener transport, but they also have a clear intermodal competition with public transport in urban areas. We must make it more attractive to travel by public transport, cycle, and walk." I don't find that statement anywhere though, but that's from the article. I think that means they're working on doing something about it, but haven't reached any proposals yet.
zx8080 3y ago
> Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article? It's not "they", it's winter. If you don't move, you're frozen. And soon dead. So no EV - have to walk. Or cycle. Or public transport.
- kogepathic 3y ago
  > It's not "they", it's winter. Somehow the residents of Oulu find a way to cycle in winter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU > If you don't move, you're frozen. Good thing cycling and walking involve moving.