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"It's continually amazing to me that more than 100 years after Marx and Engels wrote their papers on Socialism and Capitalism, people can't see past much more t

"It's continually amazing to me that more than 100 years after Marx and Engels wrote their papers on Socialism and Capitalism, people can't see past much more than those choices. Which seems to be very much a false dichotomy. " It seems a very US habit to think only two extremes can exist on any issue. There are plenty of examples of other paths when you look at the different countries in Europe. They all strike different balances between socialism and capitalism. Heck, the US is not very "pure" capitalistic either. We have socialized healthcare (for some), welfare (for some), progressive taxes and more. I would be very curious about totally different approaches.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> It seems a very US habit to think only two extremes can exist on any issue. There are plenty of examples of other paths when you look at the different countries in Europe. I don't think it's a US thing at all. I don't deny EU countries have a more hybrid system in some ways, but then so do man US states. That isn't what I'm talking about though. Online arguments/debates for this stuff always revolves around the two extremes, as do political parties, even in EU. > I would be very curious about totally different approaches. We all should be! It should be a priority!
satvikpendem 3y ago
In which countries do workers own the means of production? Socialism does not mean social programs.
- biztos 3y ago
  It’s not countries, but these market share numbers are higher than I thought: Agriculture - 83% in the Netherlands, 79% in Finland, 55% in Italy and 50% in France Forestry - 60% in Sweden and 31% in Finland Banking - 50% in France, 37% in Cyprus, 35% in Finland, 31% in Austria and 21% in Germany Retail - 36% in Finland and 20% in Sweden Pharmaceutical and health care - 21% in Spain and 18% in Belgium Source: https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/proximity-and-social-economy/social-economy-eu/cooperatives_en https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/proximity...

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

> It seems a very US habit to think only two extremes can exist on any issue. There are plenty of examples of other paths when you look at the different countries in Europe. I don't think it's a US thing at all. I don't deny EU countries have a more hybrid system in some ways, but then so do man US states. That isn't what I'm talking about though. Online arguments/debates for this stuff always revolves around the two extremes, as do political parties, even in EU. > I would be very curious about totally different approaches. We all should be! It should be a priority!

satvikpendem 3y ago

In which countries do workers own the means of production? Socialism does not mean social programs.

biztos 3y ago
It’s not countries, but these market share numbers are higher than I thought: Agriculture - 83% in the Netherlands, 79% in Finland, 55% in Italy and 50% in France Forestry - 60% in Sweden and 31% in Finland Banking - 50% in France, 37% in Cyprus, 35% in Finland, 31% in Austria and 21% in Germany Retail - 36% in Finland and 20% in Sweden Pharmaceutical and health care - 21% in Spain and 18% in Belgium Source: https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/proximity-and-social-economy/social-economy-eu/cooperatives_en https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/proximity...