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There are no factories left in America that make the kind of furniture you're talking about. So yes, every cabinet maker basically must think a little these da

There are no factories left in America that make the kind of furniture you're talking about. So yes, every cabinet maker basically must think a little these days. You're not going to find someone screwing together ikea like boxes in America.

phil21 3y ago
> You're not going to find someone screwing together ikea like boxes in America. That's actually quite literally what my cabinetmaker did for my most recent home. Ikea cabinets cut down to size in his shop, and installed when ready/all the parts got in. Other brands seemed pretty identical to this - largely premade parts with a few sections designed to cut down to size. Didn't seem to take much more than a measuring tape and a couple different saws to me. I'm sure I'm being flippant, but it was eye opening seeing that process vs. watching my grandparents build a second home growing up. Part of the reason wages have not kept up is also due to the work becoming less skilled. The middle has been more or less completely hollowed out as far as I can tell. The types of job my grandfathers both would have set the dinner table with in their respective trades simply no longer exist. You either need to go mass-market low-end and seemingly as low quality as gets you a check in the mail, or high-end luxury market and all the spit'n'polish that entails. I'd love to be wrong - but trying to simply find those craftsmen in the "middle" to hire is more or less impossible for me.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  That's not a cabinet maker, that's a handyman basically. When I said people should go work for a cabinet shop and make $60k+, I meant in a place that's making medium to high grade cabinets, custom hopefully or atleast to spec for track homes at worst. What you're describing is somebody modifying mass produced cabinets from a catalog and installing them. The installers I know all make $80k+ a year if they do work you're not embarrassed about.
  - eesmith 3y ago
    You earlier described the position as "screwing a cabinet together for $60k", when you wondered why a stocker making $40K wouldn't want to change jobs. Now you are describing a position which requires non-trivial training. How long does it take to learn those skills? Who pays for the training? https://www.carpenterstraininginstitute.org/apprenticeship-programs/cabinet-maker/ https://www.carpenterstraininginstitute.org/apprenticeship-p... says "To graduate from cabinet maker apprentice to journeyworker, you’ll complete 7,000 hours of on-the-job training (OJT) and 640 hours of classroom learning." That's much more training than needed for stocking. It gives these statistics for the carpenters training as a whole: Average earnings for all first-year students: $33,436 – $46,363 + benefits* Average earnings for all second-year students: $45,600 – $63,200 + benefits Average earnings for all third-year students: $51,666 – $71,646 + benefits* Average earnings for all fourth-year students: $57,748 – $80,077 + benefits* Journeyperson $60,789 – $84,295 + benefits* Foreman $72,485 – $97,010 + benefits* which again means $60K/year requires a lot more training than being a stock clerk. Can you point to a job listing for this sort of position? I looked and found roughly comparable positions, but paying less than $80K. "As a Woodworking Prop Builder, you will play a pivotal role in bringing our clients' visions to life by crafting unique and eye-catching props and decor pieces. Your craftsmanship will be on display at a wide range of events, from weddings and corporate gatherings to private parties and more." paying $18-$22 hourly "The Craftsworker, Carpenter position focuses on carpentry and basic construction related projects/repairs. The position requires good math skills and the ability to think outside of the box. Experience in set design or custom woodworking is a plus. The Craftsworker, Carpenter works with a variety of materials, such as wood, fiberglass, rebar and concrete. The Craftsworker, Carpenter is often called upon to build/construct things that don’t come with blueprints or an instruction manual; they are built to specifications of the client and/or to fit in an allotted amount of space. Projects can vary from day to day, based on work orders, department requests, routine maintenance, or capital projects. Tasks can include such things as roofing; fencing; wood structure repairs; fixing doors/door hardware; installing door systems and windows; fixing ADA building access buttons; fixing shift doors in an animal enclosure; constructing safety fences/barriers for an exhibit; designing and building an automatic animal feeder disguised to look like a tree; or constructing various exhibit elements such as artificial plants, rocks or trees." paying $30/hour. That's far more than cabinet working and still only $60K/year. (The site I was using doesn't have linkable URLs.) Zip Recruiter has positions for cabinet maker in the range "$12-22/hr". Cabinet Maker salary in the US average $37K/year says https://mint.intuit.com/salary/cabinet-maker https://mint.intuit.com/salary/cabinet-maker based on nearly 3,000 income tax records, with a max of $70,500.

phil21 3y ago

> You're not going to find someone screwing together ikea like boxes in America. That's actually quite literally what my cabinetmaker did for my most recent home. Ikea cabinets cut down to size in his shop, and installed when ready/all the parts got in. Other brands seemed pretty identical to this - largely premade parts with a few sections designed to cut down to size. Didn't seem to take much more than a measuring tape and a couple different saws to me. I'm sure I'm being flippant, but it was eye opening seeing that process vs. watching my grandparents build a second home growing up. Part of the reason wages have not kept up is also due to the work becoming less skilled. The middle has been more or less completely hollowed out as far as I can tell. The types of job my grandfathers both would have set the dinner table with in their respective trades simply no longer exist. You either need to go mass-market low-end and seemingly as low quality as gets you a check in the mail, or high-end luxury market and all the spit'n'polish that entails. I'd love to be wrong - but trying to simply find those craftsmen in the "middle" to hire is more or less impossible for me.

talldatethrow 3y ago
That's not a cabinet maker, that's a handyman basically. When I said people should go work for a cabinet shop and make $60k+, I meant in a place that's making medium to high grade cabinets, custom hopefully or atleast to spec for track homes at worst. What you're describing is somebody modifying mass produced cabinets from a catalog and installing them. The installers I know all make $80k+ a year if they do work you're not embarrassed about.
- eesmith 3y ago
  You earlier described the position as "screwing a cabinet together for $60k", when you wondered why a stocker making $40K wouldn't want to change jobs. Now you are describing a position which requires non-trivial training. How long does it take to learn those skills? Who pays for the training? https://www.carpenterstraininginstitute.org/apprenticeship-programs/cabinet-maker/ https://www.carpenterstraininginstitute.org/apprenticeship-p... says "To graduate from cabinet maker apprentice to journeyworker, you’ll complete 7,000 hours of on-the-job training (OJT) and 640 hours of classroom learning." That's much more training than needed for stocking. It gives these statistics for the carpenters training as a whole: Average earnings for all first-year students: $33,436 – $46,363 + benefits* Average earnings for all second-year students: $45,600 – $63,200 + benefits Average earnings for all third-year students: $51,666 – $71,646 + benefits* Average earnings for all fourth-year students: $57,748 – $80,077 + benefits* Journeyperson $60,789 – $84,295 + benefits* Foreman $72,485 – $97,010 + benefits* which again means $60K/year requires a lot more training than being a stock clerk. Can you point to a job listing for this sort of position? I looked and found roughly comparable positions, but paying less than $80K. "As a Woodworking Prop Builder, you will play a pivotal role in bringing our clients' visions to life by crafting unique and eye-catching props and decor pieces. Your craftsmanship will be on display at a wide range of events, from weddings and corporate gatherings to private parties and more." paying $18-$22 hourly "The Craftsworker, Carpenter position focuses on carpentry and basic construction related projects/repairs. The position requires good math skills and the ability to think outside of the box. Experience in set design or custom woodworking is a plus. The Craftsworker, Carpenter works with a variety of materials, such as wood, fiberglass, rebar and concrete. The Craftsworker, Carpenter is often called upon to build/construct things that don’t come with blueprints or an instruction manual; they are built to specifications of the client and/or to fit in an allotted amount of space. Projects can vary from day to day, based on work orders, department requests, routine maintenance, or capital projects. Tasks can include such things as roofing; fencing; wood structure repairs; fixing doors/door hardware; installing door systems and windows; fixing ADA building access buttons; fixing shift doors in an animal enclosure; constructing safety fences/barriers for an exhibit; designing and building an automatic animal feeder disguised to look like a tree; or constructing various exhibit elements such as artificial plants, rocks or trees." paying $30/hour. That's far more than cabinet working and still only $60K/year. (The site I was using doesn't have linkable URLs.) Zip Recruiter has positions for cabinet maker in the range "$12-22/hr". Cabinet Maker salary in the US average $37K/year says https://mint.intuit.com/salary/cabinet-maker https://mint.intuit.com/salary/cabinet-maker based on nearly 3,000 income tax records, with a max of $70,500.