4 ms·

RTO is not some huge secret conspiracy. Companies have long-term leases on their offices. Office space is the single most expensive line-item on most companies

RTO is not some huge secret conspiracy. Companies have long-term leases on their offices. Office space is the single most expensive line-item on most companies financials. They want to maximize the use of these very expensive assets, and having workers in the offices accomplishes this. From a more practical perspective, working from home is great for more senior workers who are already established in their careers and know what they're doing, but it's hugely detrimental to the career development of younger workers, who largely learn from working alongside their older/more senior counterparts. Communicating over email, slack, zoom, etc., just isn't the same, and you can see this across pretty much every white collar domain--even programming. This is why companies have pretty much settled on hybrid schedules; it allows for the in-person collaboration while still allowing workers greater freedom in where they work. And while you're complaining about "the workers" consider that essentially all blue-collar jobs have been on-site full-time even through the pandemic.

heleninboodler 3y ago
> They want to maximize the use of these very expensive assets, and having workers in the offices accomplishes this. This is the same rationale as finishing your dinner after you're full because you don't want to "waste it." The food is still wasted; it's just wasted on needlessly making you fatter. If you don't actually need the office space to make the company run, you're wasting the same amount of money whether you force someone to sit in it or not (except when you force them to sit in it, you're not only wasting the money but burning employee morale).
- JambalayaJim 3y ago
  Sunk cost only works under the assumption that in office work adds zero or negative value for the company. Clearly corporate leaders don’t believe that.
  - heleninboodler 3y ago
    it's really the assumption that it adds zero or negative value or less than the employee morale is worth. I believe it adds value, but that value is very, very small.
harshaw 3y ago
counterpoint: all my young engineers who started during the pandemic vastly prefer working from home most of the time with 1-2 days a week in the office. Some want remote only.
- gamblor956 3y ago
  Your counterpoint was just my point about RTO actually being a transition to a hybrid schedule rather than a fulltime return to office 5 days a week... Working remote-only is doable for a senior-level employee with an established career, but it will kill a younger employee's career. A lot of things happen in person that can't be replicated through emails, slack, etc.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    This is not true at all. Younger employees are even more equipped for remote work than older employees. They grew up with Discord, Youtube, Twitch... lots have even contributed to open source software. The junior people on the remote teams I've worked on have always been super engaged and rewarded with more responsibility.
  - o1y32 3y ago
    I joined my current company at the height of the pandemic. So did at least hundreds of other people, many of which joined as their first job. I am a top performer at the company, and I also can't tell how other people who joined around the same time and worked fully remote the first two years would have been any better in their career had the pandemic not happened. I don't see any young employee's career killed. This is all just empty talk.
    - JambalayaJim 3y ago
      I graduated in 2020 and absolutely feel that my learning and career have suffered immensely. This is a very common thought amongst people in my cohort.
      - 3y ago
coffeedan 3y ago
> Office space is the single most expensive line-item on most companies financials Is it? Not payroll? Expensive commercial real estate in the US rents for $80/sq ft/year (source: https://www.matchoffice.com/news/rental-rates-for-commercial-property-in-the-usa-2872 https://www.matchoffice.com/news/rental-rates-for-commercial...). Tech workers are generally factored in at using 250 sq ft (source: https://web.mit.edu/e-club/hadzima/how-much-does-an-employee-cost.html https://web.mit.edu/e-club/hadzima/how-much-does-an-employee...). So, $20k per year, per employee for rent in the most expensive cities in the country. How can that possibly be more expensive than payroll?

heleninboodler 3y ago

> They want to maximize the use of these very expensive assets, and having workers in the offices accomplishes this. This is the same rationale as finishing your dinner after you're full because you don't want to "waste it." The food is still wasted; it's just wasted on needlessly making you fatter. If you don't actually need the office space to make the company run, you're wasting the same amount of money whether you force someone to sit in it or not (except when you force them to sit in it, you're not only wasting the money but burning employee morale).

JambalayaJim 3y ago
Sunk cost only works under the assumption that in office work adds zero or negative value for the company. Clearly corporate leaders don’t believe that.
- heleninboodler 3y ago
  it's really the assumption that it adds zero or negative value or less than the employee morale is worth. I believe it adds value, but that value is very, very small.

harshaw 3y ago

counterpoint: all my young engineers who started during the pandemic vastly prefer working from home most of the time with 1-2 days a week in the office. Some want remote only.

gamblor956 3y ago
Your counterpoint was just my point about RTO actually being a transition to a hybrid schedule rather than a fulltime return to office 5 days a week... Working remote-only is doable for a senior-level employee with an established career, but it will kill a younger employee's career. A lot of things happen in person that can't be replicated through emails, slack, etc.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  This is not true at all. Younger employees are even more equipped for remote work than older employees. They grew up with Discord, Youtube, Twitch... lots have even contributed to open source software. The junior people on the remote teams I've worked on have always been super engaged and rewarded with more responsibility.
- o1y32 3y ago
  I joined my current company at the height of the pandemic. So did at least hundreds of other people, many of which joined as their first job. I am a top performer at the company, and I also can't tell how other people who joined around the same time and worked fully remote the first two years would have been any better in their career had the pandemic not happened. I don't see any young employee's career killed. This is all just empty talk.
  - JambalayaJim 3y ago
    I graduated in 2020 and absolutely feel that my learning and career have suffered immensely. This is a very common thought amongst people in my cohort.
    - 3y ago

coffeedan 3y ago

> Office space is the single most expensive line-item on most companies financials Is it? Not payroll? Expensive commercial real estate in the US rents for $80/sq ft/year (source: https://www.matchoffice.com/news/rental-rates-for-commercial-property-in-the-usa-2872 https://www.matchoffice.com/news/rental-rates-for-commercial...). Tech workers are generally factored in at using 250 sq ft (source: https://web.mit.edu/e-club/hadzima/how-much-does-an-employee-cost.html https://web.mit.edu/e-club/hadzima/how-much-does-an-employee...). So, $20k per year, per employee for rent in the most expensive cities in the country. How can that possibly be more expensive than payroll?