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All the bragging about working multiple jobs or just clocking 20hours at most on so many forums like Blind, etc. is now coming to roost. So yeah, many abused W

All the bragging about working multiple jobs or just clocking 20hours at most on so many forums like Blind, etc. is now coming to roost. So yeah, many abused WFH and now the backlash is here. Amazon, Google, Apple, Meta, Zoom, Bloomberg ... all have the same conclusion: you can't trust people, at scale, to work full time from home. These stories were posted here too! You think no exec reads HN?

karaterobot 3y ago
> All the bragging about working multiple jobs or just clocking 20hours at most on so many forums like Blind, etc. I don't follow these forums where people are saying this, but your comment struck me because neither of the two things you listed are wrong, as long as the person involved is doing acceptable work. This assumes there are no requirements to disclose other jobs, no enforceable non-compete agreements, etc. The consequences for doing unacceptable work—or not doing any work at all—are well-established from before covid, and would still apply in this case: that is, if they can't do the job, fire them. I agree that it's different and perhaps scary new world for executives, but what about it is wrong?
- shadowtree 3y ago
  If you're contractor, this is the right mindset - I get paid for a unit of delivered work. Employees get full-time salaries to be available, well, full time. WFH makes people hard to reach - sorry, was out walking the dog, etc. - and all the other stuff that would never fly in an office. Not disclosing your other side gigs is a violation of most work contracts btw.
bluefishinit 3y ago
> So yeah, many abused WFH and now the backlash is here. You can't "abuse" WFH. Either you're producing results that satisfy your manager or you are not. Also, any exec making decisions based on Blind posts should be fired.
- JambalayaJim 3y ago
  I’ve never worked at a company where managers actually had the time to actually assess the quality of a single reports work. A managers job is generally more team results oriented.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    The point is that unless a manager has an actual reason to complain about someone's performance, there is no problem. Believing urban legends about people "slacking off" while WFH just mean that manager or executive should be fired.
harshalizee 3y ago
And many CEOs run multiple companies and is part of several boards of other companies. Why is it suddenly unethical for a mid level, much less paid employee to do so?
cycomanic 3y ago
If the CEOs based their decision on these sort of posts I seriously have to question their leadership ability. I think the main reason why we see management in favor of RTO is because in my experience WFH exposed how little contribution comes from management. In my experience many managers (at all levels) like to make the "informal rounds" where they go around the office and have chats with everyone to see what they are doing (instead of e.g. Looking at tickets or waiting for the weekly meeting). That mostly stopped with WFH, so suddenly many in management felt like they are not working anymore. The thing is this absence was often helping the engineers etc to be more productive.
- shadowtree 3y ago
  Absolutely and easily provable - go work at a company with the employee count of FAANG and zero managers. As all managers are useless, this company will EASILY outperform the stupid FAANGs. Just like an army without officers, amazing stuff. Seriously, what's going on here on HN? YC has managers ffs!
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    Care to strawman much? Did the OP say anything about 0 managers? Most FAANGS cut a higher percentage of managers than developers over the last year. It seems they think they can get away with a lower proportion of managers.
  - archagon 3y ago
    Valve.
hardware2win 3y ago
How managers do not detect it?

karaterobot 3y ago

> All the bragging about working multiple jobs or just clocking 20hours at most on so many forums like Blind, etc. I don't follow these forums where people are saying this, but your comment struck me because neither of the two things you listed are wrong, as long as the person involved is doing acceptable work. This assumes there are no requirements to disclose other jobs, no enforceable non-compete agreements, etc. The consequences for doing unacceptable work—or not doing any work at all—are well-established from before covid, and would still apply in this case: that is, if they can't do the job, fire them. I agree that it's different and perhaps scary new world for executives, but what about it is wrong?

shadowtree 3y ago
If you're contractor, this is the right mindset - I get paid for a unit of delivered work. Employees get full-time salaries to be available, well, full time. WFH makes people hard to reach - sorry, was out walking the dog, etc. - and all the other stuff that would never fly in an office. Not disclosing your other side gigs is a violation of most work contracts btw.

bluefishinit 3y ago

> So yeah, many abused WFH and now the backlash is here. You can't "abuse" WFH. Either you're producing results that satisfy your manager or you are not. Also, any exec making decisions based on Blind posts should be fired.

JambalayaJim 3y ago
I’ve never worked at a company where managers actually had the time to actually assess the quality of a single reports work. A managers job is generally more team results oriented.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  The point is that unless a manager has an actual reason to complain about someone's performance, there is no problem. Believing urban legends about people "slacking off" while WFH just mean that manager or executive should be fired.

harshalizee 3y ago

And many CEOs run multiple companies and is part of several boards of other companies. Why is it suddenly unethical for a mid level, much less paid employee to do so?

cycomanic 3y ago

If the CEOs based their decision on these sort of posts I seriously have to question their leadership ability. I think the main reason why we see management in favor of RTO is because in my experience WFH exposed how little contribution comes from management. In my experience many managers (at all levels) like to make the "informal rounds" where they go around the office and have chats with everyone to see what they are doing (instead of e.g. Looking at tickets or waiting for the weekly meeting). That mostly stopped with WFH, so suddenly many in management felt like they are not working anymore. The thing is this absence was often helping the engineers etc to be more productive.

shadowtree 3y ago
Absolutely and easily provable - go work at a company with the employee count of FAANG and zero managers. As all managers are useless, this company will EASILY outperform the stupid FAANGs. Just like an army without officers, amazing stuff. Seriously, what's going on here on HN? YC has managers ffs!
- sarchertech 3y ago
  Care to strawman much? Did the OP say anything about 0 managers? Most FAANGS cut a higher percentage of managers than developers over the last year. It seems they think they can get away with a lower proportion of managers.
- archagon 3y ago
  Valve.

hardware2win 3y ago

How managers do not detect it?