8 ms·

I’d bet my life we start to see a massive influx of bad press aimed at messaging providers, focusing on how criminals are using their services, over the next fe

I’d bet my life we start to see a massive influx of bad press aimed at messaging providers, focusing on how criminals are using their services, over the next few years. When the general sentiment of the average Dave is ‘encryption === bad’ this BS will rear its head again. Seems to have been the standard play for governments of this country for decades now.

b59831 3y ago
[dead]
jiveturkey 3y ago
Yes, so much so that there's a term for this: manufactured consent.
- phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
  Problem, reaction, solution.
- edandersen 3y ago
  Maybe they'll get the nudge unit out for another round.
pydry 3y ago
They already deployed M&C Saatchi against it: https://www.techdirt.com/2022/01/19/uk-has-voyeuristic-new-propaganda-campaign-against-encryption/ https://www.techdirt.com/2022/01/19/uk-has-voyeuristic-new-p... https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-uk-government-publicity-blitz-to-undermine-privacy-encryption-1285453/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-u... All about saving the children. From everybody except Prince Andrew, it seems.
- blowski 3y ago
  I don’t remember seeing this campaign. Are there any links?
  - rentnorove 3y ago
    This isn't the same ad as described in the article, but is a government funded Saatchi one from around the same time: https://www.noplacetohide.org.uk/ https://www.noplacetohide.org.uk/ > The campaign is funded by the UK Government and has been developed by a steering group of child safety organisations with support from M&C Saatchi.
    - pydry 3y ago
      I think that was the website displayed on the adverts.
- _bohm 3y ago
  Some anonymous entity has been putting up posters in my neighborhood decrying Apple for "allowing" CSAM to be stored on iCloud. Very creepy propaganda campaign.
  - callalex 3y ago
    Those posters are almost certainly plastered up by someone who genuinely believes in the cause. They have been manipulated by corrupt media, but it is a tactical error to assume that a political party is directly paying for such poster campaigns.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      It's also guerilla marketing 101, and they wouldn't be the first company, interest group or marketing agency that used those tactics to promote their products, interests, etc.
monksy 3y ago
Great example https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-scanning-heat-initiative-letter/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-scanning-heat-initiat... Heat initiative is basically non existent on Google. Not much of said about how they're funded or who is apart of it Their website is protectchildrennotabuse.org Has a CEO with experience in running charitable orgs They're explicitly focused on client side scanning and reporting on the iPhone. Honestly if you're reading this archive the website and I think that's a smoking gun Archived http://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://protectch...
- networkchad 3y ago
  [dead]
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
  heatinitiative.org was registered 2023-08-23... so the paint is barely dry. Their privacy policy also turns up nothing.
  - monksy 3y ago
    The place has a CEO, made communication to Tim cook, been featured in Wired, put up massive scare mongering examples of bad people, made vague claims of a large organization. (collective effort of concerned child safety experts and advocates) [Prior instance of their page claims researchers, experts, and advocates]. All this and they're solely focused on a small corner case of 1 business and somehow their google presence is just not there.
    - froggit 3y ago
      This whole thing with the heat initiative is straight up bizarre. Their entire dialog is just so over the top. I'll briefly summarize the back and forth heat had with apple, condensing it makes the weirdness really shine through: Heat Initiative: "Listen up! We DEMAND that the private data of iCloud users be made accessible for CSAM scans. You are to remove it all. The guilty must be punished." Apple: "woah, slow down. We already decided against policing iCloud like that, it'd get way too Orwellian way too fast. We can use on-device Communication Safety systems to make our environment safer while respecting privacy. With features such as detection of potential nudity, we can start cutting off CSAM images and video at the source and work to prevent abuse in the first place." Heat Initiative: "apple, you make stupid money off anything you touch, you employ geniuses, you have responsibility to design a safe, privacy-forward environment that allows for the detection of known child sexual abuse images and video. Also, we really, really demand scanning iCloud." Apple: "did you just ignore what I just said or is there some deeper issue like not knowing words good. this obsession you have with scanning iCloud makes me suspect you have ulterior motives. Heat Initiative: "It's not that I ignored you, I just don't really care about this shit and can't keep up this farce. Either you let the government access iCloud or we'll say you're running 'instagram for kiddy rapists.' we will destroy you." Apple: "yeah, this conversation is over." Something like that.
chimen 3y ago
It's either terrorism or child pornography. In my country (Romania) they use to call football hooligans whenever a protest is being made on a bigger scale just so they can put us all in the same boat and have an excuse to use armed forces and disperse everyone on the basis that the event was not peacefully done. Most of the people I talk to are brainwashed anyway and will happily accept it - just give it time. The discussions over privacy always end-up with something like "I have nothing to hide anyway".
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  > "I have nothing to hide anyway". People who make that argument should be forced to have high def webcams installed in their bedrooms and bathrooms.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    This would make the most sense if the goal was to actually stop child abuse, given that the majority of it happens in the home.
    - fbdab103 3y ago
      By the people they know. More likely to be assaulted by family than a stranger.
  - andrepd 3y ago
    Not even that: just say sure, give me your phone and pin, and let me read your messages and view your photos. Guaranteed not 1 person will take you up on that.
  - ChrisRR 3y ago
    People who make that argument should give us their credit card numbers
staplers 3y ago
Bitcoin is an example of this already played out. News cycle perpetuates bitcoin == bad so everyone you know just repeats "scam" and points to criminals. Meanwhile the largest institutions and richest people are investing heavily due to its revolutionary nature. Just look at all the ETFs coming out (Blackrock, Fidelity, etc). Once they are fully setup you'll see the news cycle change sentiment. Rinse, repeat, with any technology.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > Meanwhile the largest institutions and richest people are investing heavily due to its revolutionary nature. Is that why are they investing? Do investors care if it's revolutionary or that they just get high returns? E.g. a lot of "coins" have promised high returns that were obviously not sustainable.
  - staplers 3y ago
    Feel free to reply what makes bitcoin bad in a way any different from other high tech.
    - r_hoods_ghost 3y ago
      Not the patent but... incredibly environmentally destructive by design. Utterly privacy violating as you're publishing every transaction you make for the world to see on a public ledger so now your neighbour (and government) get to know about your badger fetish. Non reversible transactions are an invitation to fraud and theft and make routine errors like overpayments and payments to the wrong address potentially disastrous. Not to mention the "problems" it claims to fix like instant, fee free transactions and easy international transfers have been fixed for many years in countries with modern banking systems (i.e. not the USA) Etc. Etc. Etc.
- worik 3y ago
  Just because "they" say it's bad, does not make it good Bitcoin is bad. Even a broken clock is right twice a day....
LMYahooTFY 3y ago
I agree. And they're intelligent (pun intended), so they'll select demographics from those of us who opposed them and illustrate extremist scapegoats most outrageous to us. I think this is too often not understood or forgotten.
csomar 3y ago
Their problem is that they lost a lot of influencing power. Only old people are still watching the TV or trusting the old media. And although they do vote more, their days are numbered.
ChrisRR 3y ago
Just look at how much they attacked encryption after the 7/7 bombings, despite being organised via plain SMS

b59831 3y ago

[dead]

jiveturkey 3y ago

Yes, so much so that there's a term for this: manufactured consent.

phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
Problem, reaction, solution.
edandersen 3y ago
Maybe they'll get the nudge unit out for another round.

pydry 3y ago

They already deployed M&C Saatchi against it: https://www.techdirt.com/2022/01/19/uk-has-voyeuristic-new-propaganda-campaign-against-encryption/ https://www.techdirt.com/2022/01/19/uk-has-voyeuristic-new-p... https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-uk-government-publicity-blitz-to-undermine-privacy-encryption-1285453/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-u... All about saving the children. From everybody except Prince Andrew, it seems.

blowski 3y ago
I don’t remember seeing this campaign. Are there any links?
- rentnorove 3y ago
  This isn't the same ad as described in the article, but is a government funded Saatchi one from around the same time: https://www.noplacetohide.org.uk/ https://www.noplacetohide.org.uk/ > The campaign is funded by the UK Government and has been developed by a steering group of child safety organisations with support from M&C Saatchi.
  - pydry 3y ago
    I think that was the website displayed on the adverts.
_bohm 3y ago
Some anonymous entity has been putting up posters in my neighborhood decrying Apple for "allowing" CSAM to be stored on iCloud. Very creepy propaganda campaign.
- callalex 3y ago
  Those posters are almost certainly plastered up by someone who genuinely believes in the cause. They have been manipulated by corrupt media, but it is a tactical error to assume that a political party is directly paying for such poster campaigns.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    It's also guerilla marketing 101, and they wouldn't be the first company, interest group or marketing agency that used those tactics to promote their products, interests, etc.

monksy 3y ago

Great example https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-scanning-heat-initiative-letter/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-scanning-heat-initiat... Heat initiative is basically non existent on Google. Not much of said about how they're funded or who is apart of it Their website is protectchildrennotabuse.org Has a CEO with experience in running charitable orgs They're explicitly focused on client side scanning and reporting on the iPhone. Honestly if you're reading this archive the website and I think that's a smoking gun Archived http://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://protectch...

networkchad 3y ago
[dead]
ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
heatinitiative.org was registered 2023-08-23... so the paint is barely dry. Their privacy policy also turns up nothing.
- monksy 3y ago
  The place has a CEO, made communication to Tim cook, been featured in Wired, put up massive scare mongering examples of bad people, made vague claims of a large organization. (collective effort of concerned child safety experts and advocates) [Prior instance of their page claims researchers, experts, and advocates]. All this and they're solely focused on a small corner case of 1 business and somehow their google presence is just not there.
  - froggit 3y ago
    This whole thing with the heat initiative is straight up bizarre. Their entire dialog is just so over the top. I'll briefly summarize the back and forth heat had with apple, condensing it makes the weirdness really shine through: Heat Initiative: "Listen up! We DEMAND that the private data of iCloud users be made accessible for CSAM scans. You are to remove it all. The guilty must be punished." Apple: "woah, slow down. We already decided against policing iCloud like that, it'd get way too Orwellian way too fast. We can use on-device Communication Safety systems to make our environment safer while respecting privacy. With features such as detection of potential nudity, we can start cutting off CSAM images and video at the source and work to prevent abuse in the first place." Heat Initiative: "apple, you make stupid money off anything you touch, you employ geniuses, you have responsibility to design a safe, privacy-forward environment that allows for the detection of known child sexual abuse images and video. Also, we really, really demand scanning iCloud." Apple: "did you just ignore what I just said or is there some deeper issue like not knowing words good. this obsession you have with scanning iCloud makes me suspect you have ulterior motives. Heat Initiative: "It's not that I ignored you, I just don't really care about this shit and can't keep up this farce. Either you let the government access iCloud or we'll say you're running 'instagram for kiddy rapists.' we will destroy you." Apple: "yeah, this conversation is over." Something like that.

chimen 3y ago

It's either terrorism or child pornography. In my country (Romania) they use to call football hooligans whenever a protest is being made on a bigger scale just so they can put us all in the same boat and have an excuse to use armed forces and disperse everyone on the basis that the event was not peacefully done. Most of the people I talk to are brainwashed anyway and will happily accept it - just give it time. The discussions over privacy always end-up with something like "I have nothing to hide anyway".

lo_zamoyski 3y ago
> "I have nothing to hide anyway". People who make that argument should be forced to have high def webcams installed in their bedrooms and bathrooms.
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  This would make the most sense if the goal was to actually stop child abuse, given that the majority of it happens in the home.
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    By the people they know. More likely to be assaulted by family than a stranger.
- andrepd 3y ago
  Not even that: just say sure, give me your phone and pin, and let me read your messages and view your photos. Guaranteed not 1 person will take you up on that.
- ChrisRR 3y ago
  People who make that argument should give us their credit card numbers

staplers 3y ago

Bitcoin is an example of this already played out. News cycle perpetuates bitcoin == bad so everyone you know just repeats "scam" and points to criminals. Meanwhile the largest institutions and richest people are investing heavily due to its revolutionary nature. Just look at all the ETFs coming out (Blackrock, Fidelity, etc). Once they are fully setup you'll see the news cycle change sentiment. Rinse, repeat, with any technology.

re-thc 3y ago
> Meanwhile the largest institutions and richest people are investing heavily due to its revolutionary nature. Is that why are they investing? Do investors care if it's revolutionary or that they just get high returns? E.g. a lot of "coins" have promised high returns that were obviously not sustainable.
- staplers 3y ago
  Feel free to reply what makes bitcoin bad in a way any different from other high tech.
  - r_hoods_ghost 3y ago
    Not the patent but... incredibly environmentally destructive by design. Utterly privacy violating as you're publishing every transaction you make for the world to see on a public ledger so now your neighbour (and government) get to know about your badger fetish. Non reversible transactions are an invitation to fraud and theft and make routine errors like overpayments and payments to the wrong address potentially disastrous. Not to mention the "problems" it claims to fix like instant, fee free transactions and easy international transfers have been fixed for many years in countries with modern banking systems (i.e. not the USA) Etc. Etc. Etc.
worik 3y ago
Just because "they" say it's bad, does not make it good Bitcoin is bad. Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

LMYahooTFY 3y ago

I agree. And they're intelligent (pun intended), so they'll select demographics from those of us who opposed them and illustrate extremist scapegoats most outrageous to us. I think this is too often not understood or forgotten.

csomar 3y ago

Their problem is that they lost a lot of influencing power. Only old people are still watching the TV or trusting the old media. And although they do vote more, their days are numbered.

ChrisRR 3y ago

Just look at how much they attacked encryption after the 7/7 bombings, despite being organised via plain SMS