8 ms·

I'd add that underlying all that / in addition to that is the fear that people aren't putting their jobs first. That's what drove all the "quiet quitting" bulls

by jzb 3y ago

I'd add that underlying all that / in addition to that is the fear that people aren't putting their jobs first. That's what drove all the "quiet quitting" bullshit. The pandemic made people stop and take stock of their lives. A lot of people realized that they were putting work first and life is too fucking short to put everything else second to work. The tech layoffs have further emphasized the futility of putting work first. You might have put your career first but your employer sure as shit wasn't putting you first. Why live far from the rest of your family in a high cost-of-living area to have your life dominated by work if BigCorp is just going to throw you overboard at the first sign of a dip in profits? Not even a cut to save the business, just a cut to ensure that activist shareholders and top-line execs preserve obscene profits, bonuses, and salaries. RTO is there to remind you that they control your life, right down to where you live. Be thankful to have a job or they'll take it away from you and your health insurance, too.

borroka 3y ago
RTO is there to remind you that despite claims of talent shortages and after taking into account the fact that a substantial portion of the workforce is okay with returning to the office, for many companies the supply of talent is greater than the demand for talent.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  It is more convenient to attempt to unionize in person I suppose.
  - borroka 3y ago
    Unionization is more likely to occur when the variance of workers' wages (in the technology sector, this is total compensation) is low. In tech, the variance of workers' wages is high.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Only need a simple majority. By definition, the majority isn't high earning in a cohort. Agree we're just arguing over likelihood, won't know how serious people are until they're tired of being ground down by people like Jassy.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        > By definition, the majority isn't high earning in a cohort I don't think that's true here. A cohort doesn't have to have a particular distribution, and even if it does in this case, that doesn't mean the cohort isn't high earning relative to the rest of the population.
      - borroka 3y ago
        Most workers in the tech sector are young, and young people earning below-median salaries are salivating at the idea of moving, at some point in the near future, due to their skills, market conditions, luck or wishful thinking, into the above-median bracket. Add to that the fact that the job market for tech workers is extremely fluid, and I don't think unionization is going to happen anytime soon.
    - tuna74 3y ago
      Works pretty well in (US) professional sports and entertainment which has a really large wage variance.
      - borroka 3y ago
        Comparing one or two thousand workers in one industry (say NFL) with hundreds of thousands in another (tech) is rather daring
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  Hilarious that companies were complaining about tech shortages while simultaneously having interview processes consisting of multiple rounds of absurd competitive programming questions that require months of preparation for and have nothing to do with the job. There was never a talent shortage, that's just a narrative companies pushed to increase labor supply, lobby for more visas, and justify outsourcing
  - screwturner68 3y ago
    A lot of this is because of WFM, 5 years ago when you applied for a job you had to compete with all the bozos within 50 miles looking for a job but now you have to compete with all the bozos in the country looking for a job. five years ago they'd get 20 CVs for a job and now they are getting 1000. Even if they job market is tighter companies don't notice because they are getting 50X the number of resumes for a job. Further they can hire some guy in South Dakota who will happily work for half of what some guy in Manhattan will work for. In short WFH has fucked things up, it's a lot like how online dating hasn't helped people find love people are lonelier than ever even though they have a much larger selection. We work better in person and in smaller groups.
    - sarchertech 3y ago
      I haven’t noticed hiring has gotten any worse since 2020. If anything I think 2020 was the peak of multiple rounds of ridiculous competitive programming challenges. The last few interviews I’ve had didn’t have any leet code style problems.
      - throwaway5959 3y ago
        Those companies should be celebrated.
    - plorkyeran 3y ago
      This isn't a new thing that just started in the last few years. The tech job interview process five years already had all of the bad things that it does today. Cracking the Coding Interview was published in 2008.
giantg2 3y ago
Been quiet quitting since before it was a name
stetrain 3y ago
We laid off half of our employees, and the other half seem demoralized. We have no idea why so we're going to try making everyone come back to the office. Also hey everyone we made record profits this year! Great job! Pay raises are on hold though due to economic uncertainty. Remember, we're a family!
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  This is what's really getting under my skin. The messaging is not even hidden anymore. It's right out in the open that many companies are making enormous profits and giving out astonishing executive bonuses, at the same time as freezing salaries and layoffs. It's not adding up, and I'm kind of just waiting to see if more people are going to become as fed up with it as I am, or if we're all just too comfortable.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/08/25/t-mobile-layoffs-cut-workers-jobs-nationwide/70680602007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/08/25/t-mobile-lay... (T-Mobile to lay off 5,000 people nationwide, after Sprint merger promised more jobs) https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/t-mobile-announces-shareholder-return-program-up-19-bln-2023-09-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/t-mobile-anno... (T-Mobile US announces $19 bln shareholder return program) https://apnews.com/article/amazon-layoffs-jobs-cuts-jassy-0e857f39702de134c8f677c5b5731688 https://apnews.com/article/amazon-layoffs-jobs-cuts-jassy-0e... (Amazon cuts 9,000 more jobs, bringing 2023 total to 27,000) https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-reports-6-7-billion-net-income-as-cloud-computing-stabilized/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-reports-... (A year after historic loss, Amazon posts $6.7 billion quarterly profit)
    - GiorgioG 3y ago
      It's almost as if corporations only care about their shareholders and give zero shits about their employees.
fatnoah 3y ago
> I'd add that underlying all that / in addition to that is the fear that people aren't putting their jobs first. I'm a terrible manager. I openly admit that "real life" comes first, and constantly remind people on my team that it should for them, too. Only you know what you want and need, and the company will do what's best for itself, so it's only fair that you do the same for yourself.
RestlessMind 3y ago
Imho, all the buzz around "quiet quitting" and stupid tiktok videos bragging about how little work one does in a day have contributed somewhat to the current RTO backlash. Workers were rubbing it in. Time to show minions their place! /s

by jzb 3y ago

borroka 3y ago

RTO is there to remind you that despite claims of talent shortages and after taking into account the fact that a substantial portion of the workforce is okay with returning to the office, for many companies the supply of talent is greater than the demand for talent.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
It is more convenient to attempt to unionize in person I suppose.
- borroka 3y ago
  Unionization is more likely to occur when the variance of workers' wages (in the technology sector, this is total compensation) is low. In tech, the variance of workers' wages is high.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Only need a simple majority. By definition, the majority isn't high earning in a cohort. Agree we're just arguing over likelihood, won't know how serious people are until they're tired of being ground down by people like Jassy.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > By definition, the majority isn't high earning in a cohort I don't think that's true here. A cohort doesn't have to have a particular distribution, and even if it does in this case, that doesn't mean the cohort isn't high earning relative to the rest of the population.
    - borroka 3y ago
      Most workers in the tech sector are young, and young people earning below-median salaries are salivating at the idea of moving, at some point in the near future, due to their skills, market conditions, luck or wishful thinking, into the above-median bracket. Add to that the fact that the job market for tech workers is extremely fluid, and I don't think unionization is going to happen anytime soon.
  - tuna74 3y ago
    Works pretty well in (US) professional sports and entertainment which has a really large wage variance.
    - borroka 3y ago
      Comparing one or two thousand workers in one industry (say NFL) with hundreds of thousands in another (tech) is rather daring
JSavageOne 3y ago
Hilarious that companies were complaining about tech shortages while simultaneously having interview processes consisting of multiple rounds of absurd competitive programming questions that require months of preparation for and have nothing to do with the job. There was never a talent shortage, that's just a narrative companies pushed to increase labor supply, lobby for more visas, and justify outsourcing
- screwturner68 3y ago
  A lot of this is because of WFM, 5 years ago when you applied for a job you had to compete with all the bozos within 50 miles looking for a job but now you have to compete with all the bozos in the country looking for a job. five years ago they'd get 20 CVs for a job and now they are getting 1000. Even if they job market is tighter companies don't notice because they are getting 50X the number of resumes for a job. Further they can hire some guy in South Dakota who will happily work for half of what some guy in Manhattan will work for. In short WFH has fucked things up, it's a lot like how online dating hasn't helped people find love people are lonelier than ever even though they have a much larger selection. We work better in person and in smaller groups.
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    I haven’t noticed hiring has gotten any worse since 2020. If anything I think 2020 was the peak of multiple rounds of ridiculous competitive programming challenges. The last few interviews I’ve had didn’t have any leet code style problems.
    - throwaway5959 3y ago
      Those companies should be celebrated.
  - plorkyeran 3y ago
    This isn't a new thing that just started in the last few years. The tech job interview process five years already had all of the bad things that it does today. Cracking the Coding Interview was published in 2008.

giantg2 3y ago

Been quiet quitting since before it was a name

stetrain 3y ago

We laid off half of our employees, and the other half seem demoralized. We have no idea why so we're going to try making everyone come back to the office. Also hey everyone we made record profits this year! Great job! Pay raises are on hold though due to economic uncertainty. Remember, we're a family!

bluefirebrand 3y ago
This is what's really getting under my skin. The messaging is not even hidden anymore. It's right out in the open that many companies are making enormous profits and giving out astonishing executive bonuses, at the same time as freezing salaries and layoffs. It's not adding up, and I'm kind of just waiting to see if more people are going to become as fed up with it as I am, or if we're all just too comfortable.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/08/25/t-mobile-layoffs-cut-workers-jobs-nationwide/70680602007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/08/25/t-mobile-lay... (T-Mobile to lay off 5,000 people nationwide, after Sprint merger promised more jobs) https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/t-mobile-announces-shareholder-return-program-up-19-bln-2023-09-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/t-mobile-anno... (T-Mobile US announces $19 bln shareholder return program) https://apnews.com/article/amazon-layoffs-jobs-cuts-jassy-0e857f39702de134c8f677c5b5731688 https://apnews.com/article/amazon-layoffs-jobs-cuts-jassy-0e... (Amazon cuts 9,000 more jobs, bringing 2023 total to 27,000) https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-reports-6-7-billion-net-income-as-cloud-computing-stabilized/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-reports-... (A year after historic loss, Amazon posts $6.7 billion quarterly profit)
  - GiorgioG 3y ago
    It's almost as if corporations only care about their shareholders and give zero shits about their employees.

fatnoah 3y ago

> I'd add that underlying all that / in addition to that is the fear that people aren't putting their jobs first. I'm a terrible manager. I openly admit that "real life" comes first, and constantly remind people on my team that it should for them, too. Only you know what you want and need, and the company will do what's best for itself, so it's only fair that you do the same for yourself.

RestlessMind 3y ago

Imho, all the buzz around "quiet quitting" and stupid tiktok videos bragging about how little work one does in a day have contributed somewhat to the current RTO backlash. Workers were rubbing it in. Time to show minions their place! /s