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> Due to log retention policies, we don’t have logs with specific evidence No “this issue has been corrected” for this one. Are we still budgeting storage like

by natch 3y ago

> Due to log retention policies, we don’t have logs with specific evidence No “this issue has been corrected” for this one. Are we still budgeting storage like it’s the 1990s for logs?

cesarb 3y ago
> > Due to log retention policies, [...] > Are we still budgeting storage like it’s the 1990s for logs? Retention policies are not necessarily about storage space; sometimes, they are there to avoid being required to provide that old data during lawsuits.
- c0pium 3y ago
  Retention policies at cloud providers are 100% about storage space (and accompanying cost). At companies like Microsoft saying “reduced cogs” is a very reliable way to get bonuses.
  - lazyasciiart 3y ago
    If storage space was 100% of the decision about logs they would not retain logs. The other factors include technical utility and legal considerations.
    - c0pium 3y ago
      Huh? Logs are how you run the service. Cost is what keeps you from retaining more of them. Since you seem not to be familiar with the subject, retention policy is something of a misnomer; it would be more accurate to call it a deletion/destruction policy. The default is retain everything forever. There are no legal considerations here. That’s what lawyers are for, and big tech has a ton of lawyers. If you work somewhere that people are deleting things to keep them from being discoverable, run away as fast as you can.
      - lazyasciiart 3y ago
        Yes, logs are important for running the service. You were supposed to realize when you said that, that “is this useful” is a factor in how long you keep logs, alongside “how much does it cost”. I do work at big tech and see a lot of logging policies, in fact. Having lawyers involved doesn’t make it “no legal considerations”, it makes it properly assessed legal considerations. It is default practice across big tech (and other large professional industries) to delete eg email as soon as reasonable in order to reduce discoverable records. It is also required for most services that they be able to delete logs and archived material to comply with the laws about keeping personal data around for no purpose - most places will never see this brought up but if they do, it can be a big deal.

by natch 3y ago

> Due to log retention policies, we don’t have logs with specific evidence No “this issue has been corrected” for this one. Are we still budgeting storage like it’s the 1990s for logs?

cesarb 3y ago

> > Due to log retention policies, [...] > Are we still budgeting storage like it’s the 1990s for logs? Retention policies are not necessarily about storage space; sometimes, they are there to avoid being required to provide that old data during lawsuits.

c0pium 3y ago
Retention policies at cloud providers are 100% about storage space (and accompanying cost). At companies like Microsoft saying “reduced cogs” is a very reliable way to get bonuses.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  If storage space was 100% of the decision about logs they would not retain logs. The other factors include technical utility and legal considerations.
  - c0pium 3y ago
    Huh? Logs are how you run the service. Cost is what keeps you from retaining more of them. Since you seem not to be familiar with the subject, retention policy is something of a misnomer; it would be more accurate to call it a deletion/destruction policy. The default is retain everything forever. There are no legal considerations here. That’s what lawyers are for, and big tech has a ton of lawyers. If you work somewhere that people are deleting things to keep them from being discoverable, run away as fast as you can.
    - lazyasciiart 3y ago
      Yes, logs are important for running the service. You were supposed to realize when you said that, that “is this useful” is a factor in how long you keep logs, alongside “how much does it cost”. I do work at big tech and see a lot of logging policies, in fact. Having lawyers involved doesn’t make it “no legal considerations”, it makes it properly assessed legal considerations. It is default practice across big tech (and other large professional industries) to delete eg email as soon as reasonable in order to reduce discoverable records. It is also required for most services that they be able to delete logs and archived material to comply with the laws about keeping personal data around for no purpose - most places will never see this brought up but if they do, it can be a big deal.