5 ms·

They all have crazy CVs. If you're really talented in the US you can get very far on talent alone. If he was in Germany he's be a Ph.d or Postdoc toiling in som

They all have crazy CVs. If you're really talented in the US you can get very far on talent alone. If he was in Germany he's be a Ph.d or Postdoc toiling in some outdated research field that nobody cares about. The CTO has an even crazier CV. Born in the poorest European country, BSc at Dartmond (is that considered a good uni? idk), internship at GS, a stint at Tesla, couple of startups and hits gold with OpenAi. A BSc in mechanical engineering wouldn't even get you a job in Germany.

swyx 3y ago
maybe Europe needs to lighten up a little on the credentialism. (i am not at all saying this is exclusive to europe tho)
- mustafa_pasi 3y ago
  Definitely, but it is not our only problem. We don't get those lucrative internships and neither do we get the boatloads of startup capital. It's all caused by the same risk averse mentality, though.
  - cushpush 3y ago
    The "risk averse" mentality is insightful to me, attempting to comprehend what cultural differences my (European issue) parents engage the world with
    - mustafa_pasi 3y ago
      Oh, it's definitely one of the most distinctive difference between US and Europe. Of course it is not all the same. Germans are on the more conservative side, while the Dutch are known to be more entrepreneurial. But overall none is on the same level as you Americans.
  - troupo 3y ago
    It's caused by "a business that loses billions of dollars a year for over a decade isn't a sustainable business" mentality. The US is the exact opposite. Even OpenAI, however amazing it is, is not a business (yet?). It's a money sink.
    - cushpush 3y ago
      "Loss-leader" is the term, I believe
      - swores 3y ago
        No, that's something different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader The thing being talked about doesn't have a widely-used nickname, though "Blitzscaling" is probably the closest.
        cushpush 3y ago
        Oh, I see, yeah maybe not the exact right fit is "loss leader" but it sounds good. Hmm. It's more like domination via attrition?
        troupo 3y ago
        There's also price dumping involved in many of these schemes.
        tough 3y ago
        It's the good ol drug dealer adage just at blitzscale as gp put it. The first hit is always free
    - calderwoodra 3y ago
      Can you point to an example of a country that had/has a similar mentality to the US and it backfired?
      - 3y ago
  - nxm 3y ago
    Most importantly, it’s bankruptcy laws in the US that encourage and reward risk taking which push technology forward. Last I’ve heard Europe is trying to update its laws for this exact reason
- nashashmi 3y ago
  This is true. But this is also what happens when there is too much money at play, and not enough of a try-and-fail approach.
borroka 3y ago
As somebody who grew up in Europe and moved to the US for a postdoc and then started working in tech and never left, the main difference is the lack of venture capital ecosystem in Europe. Why there is no VC ecosystem is a topic for another day. You can have a brilliant idea, but with debt financing, start-ups are not an inviting business for banks, whether the founders have the "right" credentials or not.
sdeframond 3y ago
> If you're really talented in the US you can get very far on talent alone While this seems true, I wonder how much selection bias is involved here. I mean, we wouldn't know about talented people that kept failing, right? Edit: since they failed, they must be dumb, right? No matter how many PhDs they have. (I am being sarcastic, ofc)
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  The point is not that there are not failing people in USA, but that there are much less successfully ones in EU.
  - sdeframond 3y ago
    GP comment is saying that the situation is better in the US than in Germany for talented people. I am wondering whether this is really true in average or just selection bias.

swyx 3y ago

maybe Europe needs to lighten up a little on the credentialism. (i am not at all saying this is exclusive to europe tho)

mustafa_pasi 3y ago
Definitely, but it is not our only problem. We don't get those lucrative internships and neither do we get the boatloads of startup capital. It's all caused by the same risk averse mentality, though.
- cushpush 3y ago
  The "risk averse" mentality is insightful to me, attempting to comprehend what cultural differences my (European issue) parents engage the world with
  - mustafa_pasi 3y ago
    Oh, it's definitely one of the most distinctive difference between US and Europe. Of course it is not all the same. Germans are on the more conservative side, while the Dutch are known to be more entrepreneurial. But overall none is on the same level as you Americans.
- troupo 3y ago
  It's caused by "a business that loses billions of dollars a year for over a decade isn't a sustainable business" mentality. The US is the exact opposite. Even OpenAI, however amazing it is, is not a business (yet?). It's a money sink.
  - cushpush 3y ago
    "Loss-leader" is the term, I believe
    - swores 3y ago
      No, that's something different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader The thing being talked about doesn't have a widely-used nickname, though "Blitzscaling" is probably the closest.
      - cushpush 3y ago
        Oh, I see, yeah maybe not the exact right fit is "loss leader" but it sounds good. Hmm. It's more like domination via attrition?
        troupo 3y ago
        There's also price dumping involved in many of these schemes.
        tough 3y ago
        It's the good ol drug dealer adage just at blitzscale as gp put it. The first hit is always free
  - calderwoodra 3y ago
    Can you point to an example of a country that had/has a similar mentality to the US and it backfired?
    - 3y ago
- nxm 3y ago
  Most importantly, it’s bankruptcy laws in the US that encourage and reward risk taking which push technology forward. Last I’ve heard Europe is trying to update its laws for this exact reason
nashashmi 3y ago
This is true. But this is also what happens when there is too much money at play, and not enough of a try-and-fail approach.

borroka 3y ago

As somebody who grew up in Europe and moved to the US for a postdoc and then started working in tech and never left, the main difference is the lack of venture capital ecosystem in Europe. Why there is no VC ecosystem is a topic for another day. You can have a brilliant idea, but with debt financing, start-ups are not an inviting business for banks, whether the founders have the "right" credentials or not.

sdeframond 3y ago

> If you're really talented in the US you can get very far on talent alone While this seems true, I wonder how much selection bias is involved here. I mean, we wouldn't know about talented people that kept failing, right? Edit: since they failed, they must be dumb, right? No matter how many PhDs they have. (I am being sarcastic, ofc)

dist-epoch 3y ago
The point is not that there are not failing people in USA, but that there are much less successfully ones in EU.
- sdeframond 3y ago
  GP comment is saying that the situation is better in the US than in Germany for talented people. I am wondering whether this is really true in average or just selection bias.