4 ms·

I agree. Clarity of speech is representative of clarity of mind, "complicated" ideas are often half baked and use the supposed complexity to hide the flaws in t

I agree. Clarity of speech is representative of clarity of mind, "complicated" ideas are often half baked and use the supposed complexity to hide the flaws in the argument.

qwytw 3y ago
Or those 'simple' arguments might only make sense in a vacuum when no real word implications are considered. Of course it depends on the discussion and the topic but actual problems (which are worth discussion) almost never have simple or straightforward answer.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  The opposite of simple is complicated. Complex ideas are fine, complicated ideas are generally nonsense.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    The initial argument was about a time limit. Complex ideas certainly can be expressed in simple terms which might be sufficient for a presentation or a performative 'discussion' (like a debate). If you're having a good faith discussion/argument? Well, it depends..
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      If you idea is complex provide a summary and allow others to ask questions. People with complicated ideas tend to get upset when you do that. Recently the socratic method was called a misinformation tactic in the media, to serve as an example of this.
      - qwytw 3y ago
        > People with complicated ideas tend to get upset when you do that. Presumably because they don't actually understand their 'ideas' themselves and not so much because they are complicated (I don't agree that most complicated ideas are nonsense it's just that it's rarely possible to discuss them without splitting them up/narrowing down to specific aspects. So chances are that a person who proposes one is incapable of doing either of those things so we end up with nonsense). But yeah that's a definitely a good approach
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Do you have a simple explanation for the difference between complex and complicated?
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      String theory is complex. Any argument about US constitution that isn't just a literal reading of the text is complicated. Ask Hawking about string theory and he can answer your question. Ask a judge why civil asset forfeiture is constitutional and after a while he will refuse to talk to you anymore and insist that your uneducated mind can not possibly comprehend this complexity that he is unable to articulate or defend.

I agree. Clarity of speech is representative of clarity of mind, "complicated" ideas are often half baked and use the supposed complexity to hide the flaws in the argument.

qwytw 3y ago

Or those 'simple' arguments might only make sense in a vacuum when no real word implications are considered. Of course it depends on the discussion and the topic but actual problems (which are worth discussion) almost never have simple or straightforward answer.

willcipriano 3y ago
The opposite of simple is complicated. Complex ideas are fine, complicated ideas are generally nonsense.
- qwytw 3y ago
  The initial argument was about a time limit. Complex ideas certainly can be expressed in simple terms which might be sufficient for a presentation or a performative 'discussion' (like a debate). If you're having a good faith discussion/argument? Well, it depends..
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    If you idea is complex provide a summary and allow others to ask questions. People with complicated ideas tend to get upset when you do that. Recently the socratic method was called a misinformation tactic in the media, to serve as an example of this.
    - qwytw 3y ago
      > People with complicated ideas tend to get upset when you do that. Presumably because they don't actually understand their 'ideas' themselves and not so much because they are complicated (I don't agree that most complicated ideas are nonsense it's just that it's rarely possible to discuss them without splitting them up/narrowing down to specific aspects. So chances are that a person who proposes one is incapable of doing either of those things so we end up with nonsense). But yeah that's a definitely a good approach
- fragmede 3y ago
  Do you have a simple explanation for the difference between complex and complicated?
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    String theory is complex. Any argument about US constitution that isn't just a literal reading of the text is complicated. Ask Hawking about string theory and he can answer your question. Ask a judge why civil asset forfeiture is constitutional and after a while he will refuse to talk to you anymore and insist that your uneducated mind can not possibly comprehend this complexity that he is unable to articulate or defend.