5 ms·

Openly expressed bigotry seems like a special type of disagreement to me.

zogrodea 3y ago
Some will argue that "bigotry" has suffered from concept creep though. People will readily call me one for saying I believe gender is immutable or that I believe intercourse with the same gender is a sin, but I'm not wishing any harm to those who disagree.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  > I'm not wishing any harm I just wanted to note the progression from "disqualify themselves from my respect" to "wishing harm". What is your definition of bigotry?
  - zogrodea 3y ago
    (Clarifying, because you brought up disrespect, that I don’t believe in disrespecting them for their beliefs; they are just humans like you and me with their own struggles.) I don’t use the word “bigot” because of the flimsy usage I’ve observed from others. Enough people use it to mean express anger/dislike (like how someone uses “ouch” to express pain) that I don’t associate it with semantic content.
    - sixstringtheory 3y ago
      I didn’t bring it up, it was a quote from the article that was being discussed upthread. I don’t believe in disrespecting anyone because of their beliefs prima facie. It’s how they react to those beliefs being challenged that I find myself losing respect for them over. It’s like the difference between “suffer the little children, for they know not what they do” and “ whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble”. Now I can’t speak for the article’s author or the other replies above us, but to me that is the kind of bigotry I have problems with. In my experience, people who hold beliefs like “black people innately are more criminal” react more immaturely to discussion than people discussing the underpinnings of astrophysics do. Also note that my spectrum for respect is orthogonal to my spectrum for love/hate. Just because I don’t respect someone due to their beliefs doesn’t necessarily mean I hate them or think they are evil. But I’m less likely to be influenced by their opinions in the future, or to even give them the time to listen to what their opinions are on other things.
- bittercynic 3y ago
  You are entitled to your beliefs, and I don't think that you're engaging in bigotry in this discussion, but I would consider it bigotry if you expressed those same beliefs as part of an argument that gay people should not have equal legal or financial protections.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
That's crossing the threshold from a difference in opinion to a difference of morality. You can talk about someone about a disagreement, like who is going to do the vacuuming on mondays, but it's a lot more involved and much more higher stakes to talk about who gets to live.
pauldenton 3y ago
Let's define our terms. Bigot:Extreme intolerance of the beliefs and opinions of an individual or group, particularly racial or religious. You can be extremely intolerant from either direction. A college which refuses to hire Republican professor's is acting bigoted. Programs which exclude on the basis of race like a Black Leadership Summit are acting bigoted, and in so far as they say people of other races need not apply they are openly expressing bigotry.

Some will argue that "bigotry" has suffered from concept creep though. People will readily call me one for saying I believe gender is immutable or that I believe intercourse with the same gender is a sin, but I'm not wishing any harm to those who disagree.

sixstringtheory 3y ago
> I'm not wishing any harm I just wanted to note the progression from "disqualify themselves from my respect" to "wishing harm". What is your definition of bigotry?
- zogrodea 3y ago
  (Clarifying, because you brought up disrespect, that I don’t believe in disrespecting them for their beliefs; they are just humans like you and me with their own struggles.) I don’t use the word “bigot” because of the flimsy usage I’ve observed from others. Enough people use it to mean express anger/dislike (like how someone uses “ouch” to express pain) that I don’t associate it with semantic content.
  - sixstringtheory 3y ago
    I didn’t bring it up, it was a quote from the article that was being discussed upthread. I don’t believe in disrespecting anyone because of their beliefs prima facie. It’s how they react to those beliefs being challenged that I find myself losing respect for them over. It’s like the difference between “suffer the little children, for they know not what they do” and “ whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble”. Now I can’t speak for the article’s author or the other replies above us, but to me that is the kind of bigotry I have problems with. In my experience, people who hold beliefs like “black people innately are more criminal” react more immaturely to discussion than people discussing the underpinnings of astrophysics do. Also note that my spectrum for respect is orthogonal to my spectrum for love/hate. Just because I don’t respect someone due to their beliefs doesn’t necessarily mean I hate them or think they are evil. But I’m less likely to be influenced by their opinions in the future, or to even give them the time to listen to what their opinions are on other things.
bittercynic 3y ago
You are entitled to your beliefs, and I don't think that you're engaging in bigotry in this discussion, but I would consider it bigotry if you expressed those same beliefs as part of an argument that gay people should not have equal legal or financial protections.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

That's crossing the threshold from a difference in opinion to a difference of morality. You can talk about someone about a disagreement, like who is going to do the vacuuming on mondays, but it's a lot more involved and much more higher stakes to talk about who gets to live.

pauldenton 3y ago

Let's define our terms. Bigot:Extreme intolerance of the beliefs and opinions of an individual or group, particularly racial or religious. You can be extremely intolerant from either direction. A college which refuses to hire Republican professor's is acting bigoted. Programs which exclude on the basis of race like a Black Leadership Summit are acting bigoted, and in so far as they say people of other races need not apply they are openly expressing bigotry.