4 ms·

Neither has corporate control.

by csb6 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ryan93 3y ago
Revealed preference is that people move to countries with free speech
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  People move to places with economic opportunity. That _tends_ to be places with free speech, but look at how many people move to places like Saudi Arabia or the UAE.
  - ryan93 3y ago
    I looked. Its an absurdly small fraction of what europe and america have gotten historically.
    - csb6 3y ago
      The total number of job opportunities in two countries over the span of the ~50 years they have been major oil producers is necessarily less than the number of opportunities available in an entire continent + one of the largest nations in the world over a period of centuries. Almost 90% of the UAE’s population consists of migrant workers. The U.S. can’t get anywhere near that. Since people flock to countries with free speech, then the UAE must have extremely free speech laws. QED. Of course this is as wrong as your original claim because seeing where people migrate is not a reliable indicator of whether their destination has “free speech” or not.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      Around 80-90% of the UAE's population is a migrant worker, far _far_ above anywhere in the Americas or Europe.
WalterBright 3y ago
You have a choice with that. Corporations cannot stop you from publishing your own blog. Is HackerNews a thrall to corporate media and is controlling what you see?
- angrysaki 3y ago
  Without government regulations, are you sure the corporate merger of Amazon, Google, Verizon Walmart & Microsoft would let you?
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  People complain of shadow bans, the amorphous algorithm pushing links away from the front page, comments getting eaten, and all sorts of supposed control on Hacker News every day.
- csb6 3y ago
  > You have a choice with that. Corporations cannot stop you from publishing your own blog. Indeed, in America both myself and Rupert Murdoch are free to start a news media operation. I’m sure the journalistic merits of our respective works (and not how much capital and media connections we each have available to us) will determine our success in the free marketplace of ideas. Of course state-run media will tend to publish propaganda in support of the government, but media is not a binary choice between Pravda and Fox News/MSNBC. It is naive to think that the current media landscape consists of each individual rationally selecting articles from all available blogs and news sites - we get most of our news from the places that have money to publish/research/advertise their stories, which is almost always (in the U.S.) done by private corporations. Many articles about current events found on news aggregators such as HN tend to be by these sources not because of some hidden conspiracy but because these are the stories with the most visibility.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > these are the stories with the most visibility. There have been many HN stories about D, some written by myself, and D hardly has corporate/government visibility.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Worked out pretty well for me. Global poverty has never been lower largely thanks to globalization mostly pushed by corporations.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  And stealing innovations. How much advancement was because of a corporation? Versus some engineer/scientist that just got a 5% bonus that year, while the discovery netted billons.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    The factories that lifted billions out of poverty weren't created by the scientist that got a 5% bonus. They were created by corporations. Things could be better. They're better than ever before though.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Ideas are a dime a dozen. It takes a great deal of money to realize them.
    - raja_mukherji 3y ago
      Money is inanimate, it can't actually do anything by itself. It takes labour and resources to realize an idea, and money is one way to control how labour and resources should be directed. This is why money (capital) equates to power. As a result, under capitalism, those with more capital have more power to generate more capital, leading to a feedback loop that concentrates capital.
- dpig_ 3y ago
  Take China out of your global poverty numbers and see how that changes the story.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    why would I do that? Are the Chinese not people?

Neither has corporate control.

by csb6 3y ago

Neither has corporate control.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ryan93 3y ago

Revealed preference is that people move to countries with free speech

dukeyukey 3y ago
People move to places with economic opportunity. That _tends_ to be places with free speech, but look at how many people move to places like Saudi Arabia or the UAE.
- ryan93 3y ago
  I looked. Its an absurdly small fraction of what europe and america have gotten historically.
  - csb6 3y ago
    The total number of job opportunities in two countries over the span of the ~50 years they have been major oil producers is necessarily less than the number of opportunities available in an entire continent + one of the largest nations in the world over a period of centuries. Almost 90% of the UAE’s population consists of migrant workers. The U.S. can’t get anywhere near that. Since people flock to countries with free speech, then the UAE must have extremely free speech laws. QED. Of course this is as wrong as your original claim because seeing where people migrate is not a reliable indicator of whether their destination has “free speech” or not.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    Around 80-90% of the UAE's population is a migrant worker, far _far_ above anywhere in the Americas or Europe.

WalterBright 3y ago

You have a choice with that. Corporations cannot stop you from publishing your own blog. Is HackerNews a thrall to corporate media and is controlling what you see?

angrysaki 3y ago
Without government regulations, are you sure the corporate merger of Amazon, Google, Verizon Walmart & Microsoft would let you?
Apocryphon 3y ago
People complain of shadow bans, the amorphous algorithm pushing links away from the front page, comments getting eaten, and all sorts of supposed control on Hacker News every day.
csb6 3y ago
> You have a choice with that. Corporations cannot stop you from publishing your own blog. Indeed, in America both myself and Rupert Murdoch are free to start a news media operation. I’m sure the journalistic merits of our respective works (and not how much capital and media connections we each have available to us) will determine our success in the free marketplace of ideas. Of course state-run media will tend to publish propaganda in support of the government, but media is not a binary choice between Pravda and Fox News/MSNBC. It is naive to think that the current media landscape consists of each individual rationally selecting articles from all available blogs and news sites - we get most of our news from the places that have money to publish/research/advertise their stories, which is almost always (in the U.S.) done by private corporations. Many articles about current events found on news aggregators such as HN tend to be by these sources not because of some hidden conspiracy but because these are the stories with the most visibility.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > these are the stories with the most visibility. There have been many HN stories about D, some written by myself, and D hardly has corporate/government visibility.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Worked out pretty well for me. Global poverty has never been lower largely thanks to globalization mostly pushed by corporations.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
And stealing innovations. How much advancement was because of a corporation? Versus some engineer/scientist that just got a 5% bonus that year, while the discovery netted billons.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  The factories that lifted billions out of poverty weren't created by the scientist that got a 5% bonus. They were created by corporations. Things could be better. They're better than ever before though.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Ideas are a dime a dozen. It takes a great deal of money to realize them.
  - raja_mukherji 3y ago
    Money is inanimate, it can't actually do anything by itself. It takes labour and resources to realize an idea, and money is one way to control how labour and resources should be directed. This is why money (capital) equates to power. As a result, under capitalism, those with more capital have more power to generate more capital, leading to a feedback loop that concentrates capital.
dpig_ 3y ago
Take China out of your global poverty numbers and see how that changes the story.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  why would I do that? Are the Chinese not people?