5 ms·

Yet another "conspiracy theory" that turned out to be true.

by ElMocambo_x4 3y ago

have_faith 3y ago
Good point, I'm going to believe all conspiracy theories from now on.
- Julesman 3y ago
  There are three types of people circling around conspiracy theories. 1) Literate people who care about history and know that industry does what's best for profit at all costs. 2) People who don't read much looking for a hobby. 3) Liberals hoping to pass off their empty skepticism as allegiance to the mainstream.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > The term 'conspiracy theory' was itself a product on CIA influence operations in this country, specifically intended to squash interest in the assassination of JFK. The ol' "conspiracy theory conspiracy": https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-conspiracy-theory-jfk-941578119864 https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-conspiracy-theory-jfk-...
    - Julesman 3y ago
      Thanks for the correction. I think it would have been better for me to say that counter-intelligence operations in the country have long intentionally colored inconvenient facts as wild conjecture, regardless of their historical foundation.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - Julesman 3y ago
      I found this telling. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+theory&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+the...
    - serf 3y ago
      that's such a silly conclusion though, and really a perfect AP piece. It discredits people while saying nothing. It doesn't matter if the phrase existed before hand, it very obviously blew-up during the JFK event.[0] It could entirely well be that the DoD didn't invent the phrase, but it's pretty obvious that it very quickly became a part of the public verbage during heavy interest in the JFK event -- that trend could have easily been the indicator of work towards the discrediting of both the term and those that had too much curiosity towards things they shouldn't question. [0]: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+theory&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=de-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+the...
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    Before the JFK assassination, 'conspiracy theory' literally meant a theory about a criminal conspiracy. In the case of the JFK assassination, all theories that were counter to the official lone-wolf theory were conspiracy theories, theories about multiple people being involved in the assassination are categorically conspiracy theories while a lone-wolf theory involves no conspiring. Due to this, the term 'conspiracy theory' shifted to mean any theory that was counter to the official narrative. For instance, all theories about 9/11 are conspiracy theories in the literal sense. Even in the official 9/11 Commission Report theory, a bunch of men conspired to hijack airplanes on the same day and crash them into buildings. That's literally a theory about a conspiracy. But in the new meaning, this is not a conspiracy theory because it's the government's officially endorsed theory. Whether the CIA induced this verbal judo deliberately is another question. I'm inclined to think they didn't. I think it was a natural language shift, albeit one that has been harmful to society.
    - Julesman 3y ago
      I know what it means better than most. I also know that it's application as a means of establishing liberal identity as opposed to basic historical facts is a long time feature of our empire. Liberals punch down at leftists. Someone questions the motives of our empire and invariably some liberal eager to establish their mainstream credibility shows up to argue with skeptics and side with industry.
      - mikrotikker 3y ago
        God damn. I guess we see RFK Jr future.
    - cmmeur01 3y ago
      Have you read CIA 1035 960? https://archive.org/details/CIADOC1035960/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/CIADOC1035960/mode/1up
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        I have now. This document shows that the CIA was trying to counter conspiracy theories about JFK's assassination (of course they were), but it doesn't seem to provide evidence for the CIA deliberately shifting the meaning of 'conspiracy theory'. This part got an audible "Heh" out of me though: "Note that Robert Kennedy, Attorney General at the time and John F. Kennedy's brother, would be the last man to overlook or conceal any conspiracy." Robert Kennedy was murdered one year after this document was written, while running for president. Suppose he secretly doubted the Warren Commission's report (as has been claimed by some of the people close to him, but disputed by others), becoming president would have given him a uniquely privileged position from which to assail it.
- jmprspret 3y ago
  I think you've missed the "good point" entirely.

Yet another "conspiracy theory" that turned out to be true.

have_faith 3y ago

Good point, I'm going to believe all conspiracy theories from now on.

Julesman 3y ago
There are three types of people circling around conspiracy theories. 1) Literate people who care about history and know that industry does what's best for profit at all costs. 2) People who don't read much looking for a hobby. 3) Liberals hoping to pass off their empty skepticism as allegiance to the mainstream.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > The term 'conspiracy theory' was itself a product on CIA influence operations in this country, specifically intended to squash interest in the assassination of JFK. The ol' "conspiracy theory conspiracy": https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-conspiracy-theory-jfk-941578119864 https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-conspiracy-theory-jfk-...
  - Julesman 3y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I think it would have been better for me to say that counter-intelligence operations in the country have long intentionally colored inconvenient facts as wild conjecture, regardless of their historical foundation.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - Julesman 3y ago
    I found this telling. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+theory&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+the...
  - serf 3y ago
    that's such a silly conclusion though, and really a perfect AP piece. It discredits people while saying nothing. It doesn't matter if the phrase existed before hand, it very obviously blew-up during the JFK event.[0] It could entirely well be that the DoD didn't invent the phrase, but it's pretty obvious that it very quickly became a part of the public verbage during heavy interest in the JFK event -- that trend could have easily been the indicator of work towards the discrediting of both the term and those that had too much curiosity towards things they shouldn't question. [0]: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+theory&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=de-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=conspiracy+the...
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Before the JFK assassination, 'conspiracy theory' literally meant a theory about a criminal conspiracy. In the case of the JFK assassination, all theories that were counter to the official lone-wolf theory were conspiracy theories, theories about multiple people being involved in the assassination are categorically conspiracy theories while a lone-wolf theory involves no conspiring. Due to this, the term 'conspiracy theory' shifted to mean any theory that was counter to the official narrative. For instance, all theories about 9/11 are conspiracy theories in the literal sense. Even in the official 9/11 Commission Report theory, a bunch of men conspired to hijack airplanes on the same day and crash them into buildings. That's literally a theory about a conspiracy. But in the new meaning, this is not a conspiracy theory because it's the government's officially endorsed theory. Whether the CIA induced this verbal judo deliberately is another question. I'm inclined to think they didn't. I think it was a natural language shift, albeit one that has been harmful to society.
  - Julesman 3y ago
    I know what it means better than most. I also know that it's application as a means of establishing liberal identity as opposed to basic historical facts is a long time feature of our empire. Liberals punch down at leftists. Someone questions the motives of our empire and invariably some liberal eager to establish their mainstream credibility shows up to argue with skeptics and side with industry.
    - mikrotikker 3y ago
      God damn. I guess we see RFK Jr future.
  - cmmeur01 3y ago
    Have you read CIA 1035 960? https://archive.org/details/CIADOC1035960/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/CIADOC1035960/mode/1up
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      I have now. This document shows that the CIA was trying to counter conspiracy theories about JFK's assassination (of course they were), but it doesn't seem to provide evidence for the CIA deliberately shifting the meaning of 'conspiracy theory'. This part got an audible "Heh" out of me though: "Note that Robert Kennedy, Attorney General at the time and John F. Kennedy's brother, would be the last man to overlook or conceal any conspiracy." Robert Kennedy was murdered one year after this document was written, while running for president. Suppose he secretly doubted the Warren Commission's report (as has been claimed by some of the people close to him, but disputed by others), becoming president would have given him a uniquely privileged position from which to assail it.
jmprspret 3y ago
I think you've missed the "good point" entirely.