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A lot of people are making comments about defeating the telemetry, but it's not just about selling ads this time. This is about actual surveillance and (eventua

A lot of people are making comments about defeating the telemetry, but it's not just about selling ads this time. This is about actual surveillance and (eventually) control, and the governments of the world will make this a requirement, and make circumvention of it as illegal as copyright infringement. In the US, the government will throw up it's hands and say it's not us; it's the "free" market, and this must be what people want, while all the automakers collude to do it, collect the data, and either let the NSA have it, or don't resist when they tap into it. And some people will think this is a good thing, because then we could throw literally everyone who was at J6 in prison, but then a conservative government gets thrust into power, and now they can go after everyone who was present at a BLM protest that turned violent (but I repeat myself). Whatever power "we" let "them" have will eventually be used against "us."

EricE 3y ago
just wait until insurance companies demand access to your telemetry or they triple your rates.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Why would they triple your rates? Insurance regulators do not let insurers increase premiums unless they have evidence showing the new data indicates a higher risk factor. So if you are getting your rates tripled, then you were being subsidized by safer drivers before, which seems like something that should be fixed. Dash cams have already probably given insurers a better idea on who is a riskier driver and who is not since collisions can now be more accurately attributed to the at fault party.
  - ReactiveJelly 3y ago
    They'll probably increase my rates because if I refuse the telemetry, they have to assume I'm a terrible driver. The fact that I am the most tight-assed speed-limit-obeyer I've ever known, with a dashcam, means nothing to them since it's my hardware and not theirs.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Oops, I misread the comment I replied to as tripling rates because they had access to real time driving data.
- eclipticplane 3y ago
  They already do the opposite. Usage-based insurance gives you per-day/per-trip insurance in exchange for tracking (Milewise) or to drive discounts off your existing rates. (RightTrack)
  - foresto 3y ago
    Mile Auto claims to do it with snapshots of your odometer instead of requiring a spy device. Unfortunately, they don't offer insurance in my area.
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  I had to go this route already. As a new driver, my rates were quite high - and the best option for lowering that was letting them track my driving through an app on my phone. I don't particularly like it, but it's something I'll just have to live with.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    What if you buy a second phone that you always leave at home?
    - kulahan 3y ago
      It... would have no driving data on it in that case. The actual solution is to tape it to an Amazon truck. I hear they've got some pretty serious monitoring tech in there to keep their drivers on the up-and-up.
      - thfuran 3y ago
        >It... would have no driving data on it in that case Well, yes. But whether that matters depends on how the program works. Do they discount you as long as they have a location history that doesn't seem to show unsafe driving patterns or only if you have one that sends to show same driving? Do they attempt to tie it to your car at all (it'd suck if being a passenger in a poorly driven car could increase your own rates)? Do they jack up your rates and/or drop you if your tracking is suspicious? >The actual solution is to tape it to an Amazon truck. Or root it and simulate taping it to an especially well-behaved Amazon truck.
    - Night_Thastus 3y ago
      I think the insurance company would get very suspicious if you never used your car. Also with no data, you'd get no benefit for showing you're a safe driver. In theory, you could maybe reduce your rate by only taking this second phone with you only sometimes on a regular, but lesser schedule than you actually drive. (So they see regular, consistent usage, but not nothing, and not as much as you actually drive) And avoid taking that second phone when you're doing more risky driving, like night driving. But that's honestly a major pain for likely very little monetary gain. And if you screw up, they could just straight up blacklist you, or skyrocket your rates. It's just not worth it.
- m463 3y ago
  The telsa insurance already does this. remember, the dark pattern of this is to raise the price, then discount for access.

EricE 3y ago

just wait until insurance companies demand access to your telemetry or they triple your rates.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Why would they triple your rates? Insurance regulators do not let insurers increase premiums unless they have evidence showing the new data indicates a higher risk factor. So if you are getting your rates tripled, then you were being subsidized by safer drivers before, which seems like something that should be fixed. Dash cams have already probably given insurers a better idea on who is a riskier driver and who is not since collisions can now be more accurately attributed to the at fault party.
- ReactiveJelly 3y ago
  They'll probably increase my rates because if I refuse the telemetry, they have to assume I'm a terrible driver. The fact that I am the most tight-assed speed-limit-obeyer I've ever known, with a dashcam, means nothing to them since it's my hardware and not theirs.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Oops, I misread the comment I replied to as tripling rates because they had access to real time driving data.
eclipticplane 3y ago
They already do the opposite. Usage-based insurance gives you per-day/per-trip insurance in exchange for tracking (Milewise) or to drive discounts off your existing rates. (RightTrack)
- foresto 3y ago
  Mile Auto claims to do it with snapshots of your odometer instead of requiring a spy device. Unfortunately, they don't offer insurance in my area.
Night_Thastus 3y ago
I had to go this route already. As a new driver, my rates were quite high - and the best option for lowering that was letting them track my driving through an app on my phone. I don't particularly like it, but it's something I'll just have to live with.
- thfuran 3y ago
  What if you buy a second phone that you always leave at home?
  - kulahan 3y ago
    It... would have no driving data on it in that case. The actual solution is to tape it to an Amazon truck. I hear they've got some pretty serious monitoring tech in there to keep their drivers on the up-and-up.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      >It... would have no driving data on it in that case Well, yes. But whether that matters depends on how the program works. Do they discount you as long as they have a location history that doesn't seem to show unsafe driving patterns or only if you have one that sends to show same driving? Do they attempt to tie it to your car at all (it'd suck if being a passenger in a poorly driven car could increase your own rates)? Do they jack up your rates and/or drop you if your tracking is suspicious? >The actual solution is to tape it to an Amazon truck. Or root it and simulate taping it to an especially well-behaved Amazon truck.
  - Night_Thastus 3y ago
    I think the insurance company would get very suspicious if you never used your car. Also with no data, you'd get no benefit for showing you're a safe driver. In theory, you could maybe reduce your rate by only taking this second phone with you only sometimes on a regular, but lesser schedule than you actually drive. (So they see regular, consistent usage, but not nothing, and not as much as you actually drive) And avoid taking that second phone when you're doing more risky driving, like night driving. But that's honestly a major pain for likely very little monetary gain. And if you screw up, they could just straight up blacklist you, or skyrocket your rates. It's just not worth it.
m463 3y ago
The telsa insurance already does this. remember, the dark pattern of this is to raise the price, then discount for access.