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> Here in the UK we have a perpetual doctor shortage, except that we don't, because young doctors are worked to the bone in incredibly stressful environments in

> Here in the UK we have a perpetual doctor shortage, except that we don't, because young doctors are worked to the bone in incredibly stressful environments in what seems to be a "paying your dues" model so that you can possibly, maybe earn the fat consultant money that older doctors get on their way to retirement. I wonder what would it take to end feudal employment model that so, so many industries have and what software seems to mostly avoid. I remember arguing with my doctor mother that had an intern. She practically claimed that the intern _should be_ paying her for learning experience and that's so burdensome for her to even share the knowledge she gathered during decades of experience. It's unthinkable for most software engineers, who often create free products, tutorials, articles with no expectations of pay.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
the model for doctor work was designed by a guy who was a cocaine addict. he made it work... cuz he was stimmed to the gills most days. so start by tossing that approach out. another specter hanging over the industry is that studies have shown that hand-offs to different nurses and doctors is what leads to errors, and in medicine that sometimes means people dying cuz of dumb mistakes. the solution was to keep someone on shift, like 12+ hours, or often more for sensitive cases. i've done 60 hour weeks in IT, and even napped in a data center -- that hum is relaxing! -- but those were one-offs, while it's a lifestyle for the docs.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  >people dying cuz of dumb mistakes. the solution was to keep someone on shift, like 12+ hours, or often more for sensitive cases. Which was entirely the wrong "lesson" to learn! Once again doctors bristle at being told they should improve their processes instead of being arrogant hero complexes that can do no wrong. They should have improved the handoff and paperwork processes. Airplane mechanics have been handing off extremely complex procedures and concerns for decades, with very few accidents. So maybe we should learn from them instead of letting tired doctors continue to mistreat people. Doctors similarly were grumpy about bringing in checklists like pilots have, despite them having a demonstrated effect.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

the model for doctor work was designed by a guy who was a cocaine addict. he made it work... cuz he was stimmed to the gills most days. so start by tossing that approach out. another specter hanging over the industry is that studies have shown that hand-offs to different nurses and doctors is what leads to errors, and in medicine that sometimes means people dying cuz of dumb mistakes. the solution was to keep someone on shift, like 12+ hours, or often more for sensitive cases. i've done 60 hour weeks in IT, and even napped in a data center -- that hum is relaxing! -- but those were one-offs, while it's a lifestyle for the docs.

mrguyorama 3y ago
>people dying cuz of dumb mistakes. the solution was to keep someone on shift, like 12+ hours, or often more for sensitive cases. Which was entirely the wrong "lesson" to learn! Once again doctors bristle at being told they should improve their processes instead of being arrogant hero complexes that can do no wrong. They should have improved the handoff and paperwork processes. Airplane mechanics have been handing off extremely complex procedures and concerns for decades, with very few accidents. So maybe we should learn from them instead of letting tired doctors continue to mistreat people. Doctors similarly were grumpy about bringing in checklists like pilots have, despite them having a demonstrated effect.