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Me too. There has to be a hard limit. It might as well be the posted limit. Encouraging everyone to break the law just means selective enforcement is a bigger

Me too. There has to be a hard limit. It might as well be the posted limit. Encouraging everyone to break the law just means selective enforcement is a bigger problem. If safety depends on cars moving the same speed, then everyone else should slow down to the speed limit to match my speed. I really don't get this brinksmanship stuff. "Oh it's just 5 MPH, it's just 10 MPH." A limit was posted. The negotiation process doesn't happen _after_ the sign is put up. It's very simple. All that said, I don't like ALPRs. They're so bad for privacy. I just know that they'll be connected to the Internet and used to track people wherever they drive, many of them already are.

cameronh90 3y ago
> ALPRs. They're so bad for privacy. Some countries have, or used to have, regulations saying that the devices aren't allowed to record the number plate details unless a crime is detected. I don't know how well that works since you're relying on the police to self-enforce that. The UK doesn't have any such regulations and has fully embraced ANPR. They are being deployed everywhere now, for speed limit and red light enforcement, implementing toll roads and zones, enforcing modal filters, detecting cars reported in crime, detecting cars without insurance/tax/inspection, etc. and much of it is being converted to report to the "National ANPR Data Centre". I wouldn't say I'm pleased about the privacy implications, but most people here are fine with it and seem to derive more benefit from it than harm. Vehicle crime is one of the UK's biggest problems, and I know several people who've had their stolen cars recovered thanks to the system, and ~everyone supports cracking down on uninsured drivers. It's become more controversial lately due to low emissions zones and the potential future introduction of road pricing, but that isn't really a push back for privacy reasons. I just think in the UK, people don't have a cultural expectation of privacy when driving.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  > potential future introduction of road pricing Interesting, because in the states, similar infrastructure is being deployed specifically for road pricing. I assume then we can start working on the more sensible uses you describe, but don’t have high hopes that it will be easy or quick.
  - acdha 3y ago
    That seems very sensible: in the United States driving is massively subsidized but even with so much general fund revenue we have more road infrastructure than we can maintain because cars don’t scale well. Shifting the cost back to the direct users will both provide desperately needed maintenance funds and reduce congestion by deterring low-value trips.
    - sixstringtheory 3y ago
      In theory, yes, it's sensible to fund the infrastructure. However, I think the priority should go towards safety issues first. Hell, they would issue so many tickets, I bet at first it would far outweigh the revenue from express lane tolls. Not everyone is using express lanes, but basically everyone is speeding, and speeding tickets cost more than the express lanes do. Once you hit long tail status, then move to express lane tolling.
sixstringtheory 3y ago
> I don't like ALPRs… I echo the sentiments of the parents where limits should be absolutely enforced, but also your concern about privacy. At the end of the day though, this is what the majority is asking for, by dint of consistently breaking the rules. If people obeyed the limits, there’d be no need to expand the vast quantities of resources to build all the infrastructure for these cameras. It certainly sucks for those who always obey the limits (probably a low single digit percentage of drivers) and will get caught in the dragnet. I foresee IR dazzlers becoming more popular on license plates and windshield/window frames.
whelp_24 3y ago
There doesn't really have to be, we could let cars drive for the conditions. Also, unless the UK is different, there isn't a negotiation process before either...

cameronh90 3y ago

> ALPRs. They're so bad for privacy. Some countries have, or used to have, regulations saying that the devices aren't allowed to record the number plate details unless a crime is detected. I don't know how well that works since you're relying on the police to self-enforce that. The UK doesn't have any such regulations and has fully embraced ANPR. They are being deployed everywhere now, for speed limit and red light enforcement, implementing toll roads and zones, enforcing modal filters, detecting cars reported in crime, detecting cars without insurance/tax/inspection, etc. and much of it is being converted to report to the "National ANPR Data Centre". I wouldn't say I'm pleased about the privacy implications, but most people here are fine with it and seem to derive more benefit from it than harm. Vehicle crime is one of the UK's biggest problems, and I know several people who've had their stolen cars recovered thanks to the system, and ~everyone supports cracking down on uninsured drivers. It's become more controversial lately due to low emissions zones and the potential future introduction of road pricing, but that isn't really a push back for privacy reasons. I just think in the UK, people don't have a cultural expectation of privacy when driving.

sixstringtheory 3y ago
> potential future introduction of road pricing Interesting, because in the states, similar infrastructure is being deployed specifically for road pricing. I assume then we can start working on the more sensible uses you describe, but don’t have high hopes that it will be easy or quick.
- acdha 3y ago
  That seems very sensible: in the United States driving is massively subsidized but even with so much general fund revenue we have more road infrastructure than we can maintain because cars don’t scale well. Shifting the cost back to the direct users will both provide desperately needed maintenance funds and reduce congestion by deterring low-value trips.
  - sixstringtheory 3y ago
    In theory, yes, it's sensible to fund the infrastructure. However, I think the priority should go towards safety issues first. Hell, they would issue so many tickets, I bet at first it would far outweigh the revenue from express lane tolls. Not everyone is using express lanes, but basically everyone is speeding, and speeding tickets cost more than the express lanes do. Once you hit long tail status, then move to express lane tolling.

sixstringtheory 3y ago

> I don't like ALPRs… I echo the sentiments of the parents where limits should be absolutely enforced, but also your concern about privacy. At the end of the day though, this is what the majority is asking for, by dint of consistently breaking the rules. If people obeyed the limits, there’d be no need to expand the vast quantities of resources to build all the infrastructure for these cameras. It certainly sucks for those who always obey the limits (probably a low single digit percentage of drivers) and will get caught in the dragnet. I foresee IR dazzlers becoming more popular on license plates and windshield/window frames.

whelp_24 3y ago

There doesn't really have to be, we could let cars drive for the conditions. Also, unless the UK is different, there isn't a negotiation process before either...