9 ms·

Digital Markets Act: Commission designates six gatekeepers

88 points by jlpcsl 3y ago

sylware 3y ago
noscript/basic (x)html link?
- bertman 3y ago
  Only this PDF: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_23_4328/IP_23_4328_EN.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/docume...
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  The article links to this print-friendly PDF: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_23_4328/IP_23_4328_EN.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/docume... Also, it being the official European Commission site, they comply properly with the GDPR, and if you do view the webpage with JavaScript enabled and choose only essential cookies, they do respect that correctly.
  - sylware 3y ago
    GDPR with javascript-ed web, are you serious? If true, the GDPR needs some fixes...
    - post-it 3y ago
      What do you believe are some inherent incompatibilities between JavaScript and the GDPR?
      - sylware 3y ago
        This is obviously a troll. Whatever, we'll have a look at this GDPR and the ones which bear its responsability with my lawyers.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Well, only with the letter, not the spirit. Otherwise they would only use essential cookies and there would be no need for the popup.
    - Pannoniae 3y ago
      The spirit too... They use Matomo and collect internal analytics only, there are no third-party trackers on these sites...
bertman 3y ago
>[...]Alphabet, Microsoft and Samsung provided sufficiently justified arguments showing that these services do not qualify as gateways for the respective core platform services. The mental gymnastics, corporate/lawyer double speak and lobbying efforts in those argumentations must have been absolutely insane.
- jerojero 3y ago
  It's actually the first time I hear of "Samsung Internet Browser".
  - input_sh 3y ago
    It's just a skin of Chromium that Samsung phones use as a default browser.
  - Mindwipe 3y ago
    Samsung's Browser will very likely overtake Firefox in share this year. It's just Chromium, but it's superior in performance and features IMO to Chrome itself.
    - leesalminen 3y ago
      An interesting take. I’m not a Samsung user, but these days I get enough bug reports about issues specific to Samsung browser that I had to buy a device just to reproduce the random weird stuff that happens. The latest one had to do with Samsung browsers’ dark mode which has some strange algorithm to make every website dark.
      - bcx5k15 3y ago
        I understand why - quite important on Samsungs to use dark mode and not just at night, as their OLED screens draw a less power displaying dark colours, giving improved battery life
      - Mindwipe 3y ago
        The fact it has a proper dark mode that doesn't require sites to support it is one of it's best features IMO. It is a lifesaver when trying to get a small child to sleep.
jerojero 3y ago
I thought iMessage would totally be designated a gatekeeper status. I guess it's still in investigation, and being fair, it's not as popular a messaging application as it is in the USA where it would absolutely needs to be forced to open up. Just not as bad an issue in Europe I guess.
- izacus 3y ago
  Yeah, if US would care about free market, iMessage would be an issue. But in EU it doesn't really (yet) have such a big market share. Although I do hope they conclude that iMessage needs to be an interoperable service - basic human communication services shouldn't be constrainted to a single electronics device brand.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    They did name FB Messenger and WhatsApp so it sounds correct for the EU.
  - kmlx 3y ago
    it already is interoperable as you can receive and send plain old sms messages without an issue.
    - N19PEDL2 3y ago
      You are just saying that it's interoperable as long as you use another service where it is not supported.
      - JimDabell 3y ago
        When I open iMessage and send a message to somebody using an Android phone, they receive it. When they reply, I see it in iMessage. When I react to something, the reaction is transliterated into text and sent via SMS. When I send an image, it is sent via MMS. It’s fair to say that there’s interoperability.
jiofj 3y ago
0 European companies named.
- pta2002 3y ago
  Can you think of any that actually would have applied under these rules? These markets are basically entirely dominated by American companies.
  - jiofj 3y ago
    That's basically what I'm saying. We have nothing. It's shameful.
    - jlpcsl 3y ago
      No, it is shameful that US allows such huge monopolies in the first place. These should not exist at all and should be broken up before becoming so huge.
      - bilal4hmed 3y ago
        Umm none of these companies are monopolies. For everyone in the list there is another option Europe just doesn't have any companies at all
        thomholwerda 3y ago
        10 of the world's largest 50 companies by revenue are European. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_r...
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        runako 3y ago
        This list actually surprised me. The European companies on the list fall into 3 categories: commodities (e.g. petroleum or mining), utilities, and automakers.
dindresto 3y ago
What does this mean for Youtube? For Whatsapp and iOS, the implications are known (other app stores and browsers, allowing interop between Whatsapp and other messengers, etc), but what will Youtube have to do to comply with the DMA?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- laserbeam 3y ago
  Example from the "Do"s of the DMA > provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper It's about preventing abusive behavior towards creators/marketers on the platform, not just about users.
curiousWaste 3y ago
These companies didn't even exist 100 years ago and most of the success they have had, are big innovations in their respective areas in last 20 years. Yet now they are designated as some sort of immortal "gatekeepers".
- post-it 3y ago
  So? They're gatekeepers today. > Under the DMA, the European Commission can designate digital platforms as ‘gatekeepers' if they provide an important gateway between businesses and consumers in relation to core platform services. Do you contest this designation?
- lapcat 3y ago
  They're not designated as "immortal" gatekeepers. The commission can revise the list at any time, as market conditions change. Every monopolist was once not a monopolist. Every monopolist came into existence at some point in the past and did not exist before then. So what? Should we abolish all antitrust law for this reason? It's a very strange criticism.
- Buttons840 3y ago
  You make it sound like being a gatekeeper is a thing of honor, but in this context being a gatekeeper means regulation, but not protection.
- redbell 3y ago
  Hundred years is a too-big number! Microsoft and Apple are in their late 40s, Amazon and Google are in their 20s, Facebook is 19 and ByteDance is a teenager with 11 years old, yet managed to be classified as gatekeepers. I think no other company, with a young age, in any other domain but tech could ever qualify as a gatekeeper
akmarinov 3y ago
> Following their designation, gatekeepers now have six months to comply with the full list of do's and don'ts under the DMA, offering more choice and more freedom to end users and business users of the gatekeepers' services. 6 months until sideloading on iOS?
- dindresto 3y ago
  Yes, looking forward to it! This is the only thing that's prevented me from switching from Android to iOS.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    The word on the street is that Apple will do it only in EU and will be serious about enforcing it. According to the rumours, Apple will check against location and verified EU iCloud account before allowing side loading.
    - sebazzz 3y ago
      You can use an Apple device without iCloud right? How would that work? They do know in which region the device was sold though.
      - mrtksn 3y ago
        You can use Macs without iCloud, not iDevices. On Macs you can already install whatever you like.
        lapcat 3y ago
        sebazzz was correct, and you are incorrect. You don't need to sign in to iCloud on an iOS device. My iPhone does not use iCloud.
        mrtksn 3y ago
        It appears so. TIL.
runako 3y ago
I know the intentions are positive here, but I can't help feeling like this is going to have unintended consequences that make services worse for the majority of us who do not live in the EU, like GDPR did. We have a regulatory body that doesn't prioritize standardizing on a single type of electrical plug now driving digital standards for companies that operate globally.
- basisword 3y ago
  >> unintended consequences that make services worse for the majority of us who do not live in the EU, like GDPR did. Can you give an example? Things like Google Takeout and other services allow you to download all your data are a direct consequence of GDPR. Seems like a huge win to me. If your complaint is “cookie banners” your complaint if with website owners rather than any legislation.
  - runako 3y ago
    The complaint is cookie banners. They litter the Web now as a direct result of GDPR. Website owners didn't just start obscuring their sites because it's fun. They make the Web worse for everyone in the world. Yes, I know that technically such banners are not required under GDPR. I also know that even the webmasters at The European Commission (see the linked ec.europa.eu site) add cookie banners 7 years after the law was passed. It is not reasonable to expect other organizations to interpret the law more effectively than the EU itself.
    - layer8 3y ago
      Cookie banners existed long before the GDPR, due to the ePrivacy Directive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive
      - Signez 3y ago
        And the EU is actively working on creating a new ePrivacy Regulation [0] that would explicitly tackle the explosion of cookie banners. > Simpler rules on cookies: the cookie provision, which has resulted in an overload of consent requests for internet users, will be streamlined. The new rule will be more user-friendly as browser settings will provide an easy way to accept or refuse tracking cookies and other identifiers. The proposal also clarifies that no consent is needed for non-privacy intrusive cookies that improve internet experience, such as cookies to remember shopping-cart history or to count the number of website visitors. [0]: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eprivacy-regulation https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eprivacy-r...

88 points by jlpcsl 3y ago

sylware 3y ago

noscript/basic (x)html link?

bertman 3y ago
Only this PDF: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_23_4328/IP_23_4328_EN.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/docume...
jkaplowitz 3y ago
The article links to this print-friendly PDF: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_23_4328/IP_23_4328_EN.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/docume... Also, it being the official European Commission site, they comply properly with the GDPR, and if you do view the webpage with JavaScript enabled and choose only essential cookies, they do respect that correctly.
- sylware 3y ago
  GDPR with javascript-ed web, are you serious? If true, the GDPR needs some fixes...
  - post-it 3y ago
    What do you believe are some inherent incompatibilities between JavaScript and the GDPR?
    - sylware 3y ago
      This is obviously a troll. Whatever, we'll have a look at this GDPR and the ones which bear its responsability with my lawyers.
- nottorp 3y ago
  Well, only with the letter, not the spirit. Otherwise they would only use essential cookies and there would be no need for the popup.
  - Pannoniae 3y ago
    The spirit too... They use Matomo and collect internal analytics only, there are no third-party trackers on these sites...

bertman 3y ago

>[...]Alphabet, Microsoft and Samsung provided sufficiently justified arguments showing that these services do not qualify as gateways for the respective core platform services. The mental gymnastics, corporate/lawyer double speak and lobbying efforts in those argumentations must have been absolutely insane.

jerojero 3y ago
It's actually the first time I hear of "Samsung Internet Browser".
- input_sh 3y ago
  It's just a skin of Chromium that Samsung phones use as a default browser.
- Mindwipe 3y ago
  Samsung's Browser will very likely overtake Firefox in share this year. It's just Chromium, but it's superior in performance and features IMO to Chrome itself.
  - leesalminen 3y ago
    An interesting take. I’m not a Samsung user, but these days I get enough bug reports about issues specific to Samsung browser that I had to buy a device just to reproduce the random weird stuff that happens. The latest one had to do with Samsung browsers’ dark mode which has some strange algorithm to make every website dark.
    - bcx5k15 3y ago
      I understand why - quite important on Samsungs to use dark mode and not just at night, as their OLED screens draw a less power displaying dark colours, giving improved battery life
    - Mindwipe 3y ago
      The fact it has a proper dark mode that doesn't require sites to support it is one of it's best features IMO. It is a lifesaver when trying to get a small child to sleep.

jerojero 3y ago

I thought iMessage would totally be designated a gatekeeper status. I guess it's still in investigation, and being fair, it's not as popular a messaging application as it is in the USA where it would absolutely needs to be forced to open up. Just not as bad an issue in Europe I guess.

izacus 3y ago
Yeah, if US would care about free market, iMessage would be an issue. But in EU it doesn't really (yet) have such a big market share. Although I do hope they conclude that iMessage needs to be an interoperable service - basic human communication services shouldn't be constrainted to a single electronics device brand.
- nottorp 3y ago
  They did name FB Messenger and WhatsApp so it sounds correct for the EU.
- kmlx 3y ago
  it already is interoperable as you can receive and send plain old sms messages without an issue.
  - N19PEDL2 3y ago
    You are just saying that it's interoperable as long as you use another service where it is not supported.
    - JimDabell 3y ago
      When I open iMessage and send a message to somebody using an Android phone, they receive it. When they reply, I see it in iMessage. When I react to something, the reaction is transliterated into text and sent via SMS. When I send an image, it is sent via MMS. It’s fair to say that there’s interoperability.

jiofj 3y ago

0 European companies named.

pta2002 3y ago
Can you think of any that actually would have applied under these rules? These markets are basically entirely dominated by American companies.
- jiofj 3y ago
  That's basically what I'm saying. We have nothing. It's shameful.
  - jlpcsl 3y ago
    No, it is shameful that US allows such huge monopolies in the first place. These should not exist at all and should be broken up before becoming so huge.
    - bilal4hmed 3y ago
      Umm none of these companies are monopolies. For everyone in the list there is another option Europe just doesn't have any companies at all
      - thomholwerda 3y ago
        10 of the world's largest 50 companies by revenue are European. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_r...
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        runako 3y ago
        This list actually surprised me. The European companies on the list fall into 3 categories: commodities (e.g. petroleum or mining), utilities, and automakers.

dindresto 3y ago

What does this mean for Youtube? For Whatsapp and iOS, the implications are known (other app stores and browsers, allowing interop between Whatsapp and other messengers, etc), but what will Youtube have to do to comply with the DMA?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
laserbeam 3y ago
Example from the "Do"s of the DMA > provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper It's about preventing abusive behavior towards creators/marketers on the platform, not just about users.

curiousWaste 3y ago

These companies didn't even exist 100 years ago and most of the success they have had, are big innovations in their respective areas in last 20 years. Yet now they are designated as some sort of immortal "gatekeepers".

post-it 3y ago
So? They're gatekeepers today. > Under the DMA, the European Commission can designate digital platforms as ‘gatekeepers' if they provide an important gateway between businesses and consumers in relation to core platform services. Do you contest this designation?
lapcat 3y ago
They're not designated as "immortal" gatekeepers. The commission can revise the list at any time, as market conditions change. Every monopolist was once not a monopolist. Every monopolist came into existence at some point in the past and did not exist before then. So what? Should we abolish all antitrust law for this reason? It's a very strange criticism.
Buttons840 3y ago
You make it sound like being a gatekeeper is a thing of honor, but in this context being a gatekeeper means regulation, but not protection.
redbell 3y ago
Hundred years is a too-big number! Microsoft and Apple are in their late 40s, Amazon and Google are in their 20s, Facebook is 19 and ByteDance is a teenager with 11 years old, yet managed to be classified as gatekeepers. I think no other company, with a young age, in any other domain but tech could ever qualify as a gatekeeper

akmarinov 3y ago

> Following their designation, gatekeepers now have six months to comply with the full list of do's and don'ts under the DMA, offering more choice and more freedom to end users and business users of the gatekeepers' services. 6 months until sideloading on iOS?

dindresto 3y ago
Yes, looking forward to it! This is the only thing that's prevented me from switching from Android to iOS.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  The word on the street is that Apple will do it only in EU and will be serious about enforcing it. According to the rumours, Apple will check against location and verified EU iCloud account before allowing side loading.
  - sebazzz 3y ago
    You can use an Apple device without iCloud right? How would that work? They do know in which region the device was sold though.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      You can use Macs without iCloud, not iDevices. On Macs you can already install whatever you like.
      - lapcat 3y ago
        sebazzz was correct, and you are incorrect. You don't need to sign in to iCloud on an iOS device. My iPhone does not use iCloud.
        mrtksn 3y ago
        It appears so. TIL.

runako 3y ago

I know the intentions are positive here, but I can't help feeling like this is going to have unintended consequences that make services worse for the majority of us who do not live in the EU, like GDPR did. We have a regulatory body that doesn't prioritize standardizing on a single type of electrical plug now driving digital standards for companies that operate globally.

basisword 3y ago
>> unintended consequences that make services worse for the majority of us who do not live in the EU, like GDPR did. Can you give an example? Things like Google Takeout and other services allow you to download all your data are a direct consequence of GDPR. Seems like a huge win to me. If your complaint is “cookie banners” your complaint if with website owners rather than any legislation.
- runako 3y ago
  The complaint is cookie banners. They litter the Web now as a direct result of GDPR. Website owners didn't just start obscuring their sites because it's fun. They make the Web worse for everyone in the world. Yes, I know that technically such banners are not required under GDPR. I also know that even the webmasters at The European Commission (see the linked ec.europa.eu site) add cookie banners 7 years after the law was passed. It is not reasonable to expect other organizations to interpret the law more effectively than the EU itself.
  - layer8 3y ago
    Cookie banners existed long before the GDPR, due to the ePrivacy Directive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive
    - Signez 3y ago
      And the EU is actively working on creating a new ePrivacy Regulation [0] that would explicitly tackle the explosion of cookie banners. > Simpler rules on cookies: the cookie provision, which has resulted in an overload of consent requests for internet users, will be streamlined. The new rule will be more user-friendly as browser settings will provide an easy way to accept or refuse tracking cookies and other identifiers. The proposal also clarifies that no consent is needed for non-privacy intrusive cookies that improve internet experience, such as cookies to remember shopping-cart history or to count the number of website visitors. [0]: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eprivacy-regulation https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eprivacy-r...