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I recently noticed how the public perception of Snowden changed on reddit. Years ago it was I think very positive. But with the war going on now when I see him

by yreg 3y ago

I recently noticed how the public perception of Snowden changed on reddit. Years ago it was I think very positive. But with the war going on now when I see him come up, usually there are many users saying that he is a naive Russian asset and so on. Makes me a bit sad to see.

varjag 3y ago
If you choose the path of martyr you ought to follow it. "I did it for your freedom and that's why am now with your sworn enemy" can only work for so long.
MikusR 3y ago
[flagged]
titzer 3y ago
You think Russian intelligence just let him have asylum (and be granted citizenship) without finding everything he knows about how the NSA operates? That'd be extremely naive to believe. Witting, willing, or not, Snowden has been extremely useful to Russia.
- yreg 3y ago
  Then perhaps the US shouldn't have forced him to stay in Russia?
  - titzer 3y ago
    According to what I am reading on Wikipedia about the specific timeline, the US revoked his passport before he left Hong Kong. He claims he was planning to fly to Ecuador and was just going to pass through Moscow. And yet there are direct flights from Hong Kong to Ecuador. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Flight_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Flight_from_the... The US government is not responsible for him flying to or staying in Russia.
    - 93po 3y ago
      The US government is responsible for its track record of completely failing to provide constitutional rights as part of its justice system to people in snowdens position, and Snowden has every right to not subject himself to a broken and corrupt system
    - pseudalopex 3y ago
      The Wikipedia article claimed Snowden's passport was revoked 2 days before he left Hong Kong. But the source it cited said the same day. I found no direct flights from Hong Kong to Ecuador. And a direct flight path would enter the country he fled.
caskstrength 3y ago
The guy was regurgitating Russian propaganda talking points on twitter just days before the invasion and then accepted Russian citizenship after the fact. At this point considering him a Russian asset seems reasonable IMO.
- bjourne 3y ago
  Isn't the big threat the US government's illegal and omnipresent spying on its own and other countries citizens, rather than what Snowden been up to lately?
  - caskstrength 3y ago
    I'm Ukrainian, so possible Russian assets like Snowden and Greenwald, or (senile) useful idiots like Chomsky and Waters are obviously much bigger threat to me than some dude in Maryland reading my emails.
    - bjourne 3y ago
      Can you explain how?
      - caskstrength 3y ago
        Sure. Ukraine at the moment is completely dependent on its allies to support the war effort. Without their help Ukraine wouldn't hold on for long. Recent Russian disinformation campaigns seem to be concentrated on eroding public support for Ukraine in western countries through various means and they had some success among the whole Greenwald-Taibbi-Snowden-Peterson crowd specifically and MAGA-people in general. Losing US support would put Ukraine in dire straits since I'm not sure EU/UK can provide all necessary equipment and ammunition by themselves.
        ifyoubuildit 3y ago
        Does reading taibbi or thinking the snowden revelations were a good thing make someone a MAGA person? Is Taibbi running Russian disinformation campaigns? I don't fault you for your position one bit, but this stuff seems a little conspiratorial to me. And what Peterson are you talking about?
proudeu 3y ago
Most of comments you read on reddit are written and/or upvoted by bots. No wonder they are trying to shift the narrative to be more pro-US. Eglin Military base was some time ago biggest source of traffic on Reddit. It’s up to you what you make of that
- yreg 3y ago
  > Most of comments you read on reddit are written and/or upvoted by bots I don't think that's true yet. At least regarding the portion of comments written; I have no idea about the votes.
  - 93po 3y ago
    There’s an important distinction here. Most of the comments you read. You being the general you. Most people will read a few dozen comments at most. These comments are overwhelmingly written by bots or inauthentic participants in subreddits like r politics. And they’re the most visible because these same groups also upvote them inauthentically
    - yreg 3y ago
      I just don't think that's the case yet, but we probably have no evidence one way or the other. I don't know about /r/politics since I don't read it, but say in /r/worldnews, /r/europe, /r/ukrainewarvideoreport, /r/noncredibledefence, when I open a thread and pick ten comments at random and then take a look at their user histories I believe most are human.
      - 93po 3y ago
        Two things happen here: 1. bot farms buy stolen/sold accounts that have human comment history 2. bot farms re-post human content and then repost human comments on that content in a huge cycle to mimic the appearance of being human
      - proudeu 3y ago
        I think /r/worldnews is 90% bots, judging by the repeating content and style of writing in comment section. And yes it looks like human would write.
0xDEF 3y ago
Snowden was behaving like a Russian propagandist in late 2021 and early 2022. He was repeating Russian lies that they were totally not going to invade etc.
- caskstrength 3y ago
  It is funny how all comments (including mine) pointing out that fact are heavily down-voted without any counterarguments. I know the rules, so I won't insinuate any kind of "shilling", but that really makes you think...
  - 0xDEF 3y ago
    Snowden claimed in 2014 that the 2012 Internet shutdown in Syria was actually done by the NSA and not Assad. The totalitarian dictator apparently cared too much about the free flow of information to do such a thing. https://time.com/3107684/snowden-nsa-syria-cybersecurity/ https://time.com/3107684/snowden-nsa-syria-cybersecurity/ He didn't provide any proof for this and anyone who questioned Assad's dedication to a free and unfiltered Internet was apparently an NSA shill. That was when the world should have learned that he had been turned by Russian intelligence.
  - 93po 3y ago
    I downvote it because it’s been repeated a dozen times and there’s a lack of intellectual honesty to say that a prediction that Russia wouldn’t invade is the same as spreading Russian propaganda for deliberate and malicious reasons. I can’t be bothered to explain it more than this because any ability to not see this means I’m wasting my time explaining it further
    - caskstrength 3y ago
      > I downvote it because it’s been repeated a dozen times and there’s a lack of intellectual honesty to say that a prediction that Russia wouldn’t invade is the same as spreading Russian propaganda for deliberate and malicious reasons. It wasn't just a good-faith prediction, he was quite cocky and arrogant about that[0], including, ironically, accusing others of amplifying disinformation campaign: "So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility." At the same time he didn't appear too fazed by the invasion after it had begun, just casually accused others of concern-trolling[1] and "happily and thankfully" accepted Russian citizenship[2]. > I can’t be bothered to explain it more than this because any ability to not see this means I’m wasting my time explaining it further I'm engaging in this discussion constructively and provide links to support my position. You preemptively accuse me of willful ignorance, but after re-reading his tweets I still stand by my words. [0]: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 [1]: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/02/edward-snowden-gets-russian-passport-after-swearing-oath-of-allegiance https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/02/edward-snowd...

by yreg 3y ago

varjag 3y ago

If you choose the path of martyr you ought to follow it. "I did it for your freedom and that's why am now with your sworn enemy" can only work for so long.

MikusR 3y ago

[flagged]

titzer 3y ago

You think Russian intelligence just let him have asylum (and be granted citizenship) without finding everything he knows about how the NSA operates? That'd be extremely naive to believe. Witting, willing, or not, Snowden has been extremely useful to Russia.

yreg 3y ago
Then perhaps the US shouldn't have forced him to stay in Russia?
- titzer 3y ago
  According to what I am reading on Wikipedia about the specific timeline, the US revoked his passport before he left Hong Kong. He claims he was planning to fly to Ecuador and was just going to pass through Moscow. And yet there are direct flights from Hong Kong to Ecuador. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Flight_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Flight_from_the... The US government is not responsible for him flying to or staying in Russia.
  - 93po 3y ago
    The US government is responsible for its track record of completely failing to provide constitutional rights as part of its justice system to people in snowdens position, and Snowden has every right to not subject himself to a broken and corrupt system
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    The Wikipedia article claimed Snowden's passport was revoked 2 days before he left Hong Kong. But the source it cited said the same day. I found no direct flights from Hong Kong to Ecuador. And a direct flight path would enter the country he fled.

caskstrength 3y ago

The guy was regurgitating Russian propaganda talking points on twitter just days before the invasion and then accepted Russian citizenship after the fact. At this point considering him a Russian asset seems reasonable IMO.

bjourne 3y ago
Isn't the big threat the US government's illegal and omnipresent spying on its own and other countries citizens, rather than what Snowden been up to lately?
- caskstrength 3y ago
  I'm Ukrainian, so possible Russian assets like Snowden and Greenwald, or (senile) useful idiots like Chomsky and Waters are obviously much bigger threat to me than some dude in Maryland reading my emails.
  - bjourne 3y ago
    Can you explain how?
    - caskstrength 3y ago
      Sure. Ukraine at the moment is completely dependent on its allies to support the war effort. Without their help Ukraine wouldn't hold on for long. Recent Russian disinformation campaigns seem to be concentrated on eroding public support for Ukraine in western countries through various means and they had some success among the whole Greenwald-Taibbi-Snowden-Peterson crowd specifically and MAGA-people in general. Losing US support would put Ukraine in dire straits since I'm not sure EU/UK can provide all necessary equipment and ammunition by themselves.
      - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
        Does reading taibbi or thinking the snowden revelations were a good thing make someone a MAGA person? Is Taibbi running Russian disinformation campaigns? I don't fault you for your position one bit, but this stuff seems a little conspiratorial to me. And what Peterson are you talking about?

proudeu 3y ago

Most of comments you read on reddit are written and/or upvoted by bots. No wonder they are trying to shift the narrative to be more pro-US. Eglin Military base was some time ago biggest source of traffic on Reddit. It’s up to you what you make of that

yreg 3y ago
> Most of comments you read on reddit are written and/or upvoted by bots I don't think that's true yet. At least regarding the portion of comments written; I have no idea about the votes.
- 93po 3y ago
  There’s an important distinction here. Most of the comments you read. You being the general you. Most people will read a few dozen comments at most. These comments are overwhelmingly written by bots or inauthentic participants in subreddits like r politics. And they’re the most visible because these same groups also upvote them inauthentically
  - yreg 3y ago
    I just don't think that's the case yet, but we probably have no evidence one way or the other. I don't know about /r/politics since I don't read it, but say in /r/worldnews, /r/europe, /r/ukrainewarvideoreport, /r/noncredibledefence, when I open a thread and pick ten comments at random and then take a look at their user histories I believe most are human.
    - 93po 3y ago
      Two things happen here: 1. bot farms buy stolen/sold accounts that have human comment history 2. bot farms re-post human content and then repost human comments on that content in a huge cycle to mimic the appearance of being human
    - proudeu 3y ago
      I think /r/worldnews is 90% bots, judging by the repeating content and style of writing in comment section. And yes it looks like human would write.

0xDEF 3y ago

Snowden was behaving like a Russian propagandist in late 2021 and early 2022. He was repeating Russian lies that they were totally not going to invade etc.

caskstrength 3y ago
It is funny how all comments (including mine) pointing out that fact are heavily down-voted without any counterarguments. I know the rules, so I won't insinuate any kind of "shilling", but that really makes you think...
- 0xDEF 3y ago
  Snowden claimed in 2014 that the 2012 Internet shutdown in Syria was actually done by the NSA and not Assad. The totalitarian dictator apparently cared too much about the free flow of information to do such a thing. https://time.com/3107684/snowden-nsa-syria-cybersecurity/ https://time.com/3107684/snowden-nsa-syria-cybersecurity/ He didn't provide any proof for this and anyone who questioned Assad's dedication to a free and unfiltered Internet was apparently an NSA shill. That was when the world should have learned that he had been turned by Russian intelligence.
- 93po 3y ago
  I downvote it because it’s been repeated a dozen times and there’s a lack of intellectual honesty to say that a prediction that Russia wouldn’t invade is the same as spreading Russian propaganda for deliberate and malicious reasons. I can’t be bothered to explain it more than this because any ability to not see this means I’m wasting my time explaining it further
  - caskstrength 3y ago
    > I downvote it because it’s been repeated a dozen times and there’s a lack of intellectual honesty to say that a prediction that Russia wouldn’t invade is the same as spreading Russian propaganda for deliberate and malicious reasons. It wasn't just a good-faith prediction, he was quite cocky and arrogant about that[0], including, ironically, accusing others of amplifying disinformation campaign: "So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility." At the same time he didn't appear too fazed by the invasion after it had begun, just casually accused others of concern-trolling[1] and "happily and thankfully" accepted Russian citizenship[2]. > I can’t be bothered to explain it more than this because any ability to not see this means I’m wasting my time explaining it further I'm engaging in this discussion constructively and provide links to support my position. You preemptively accuse me of willful ignorance, but after re-reading his tweets I still stand by my words. [0]: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 [1]: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1498049577131208705 [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/02/edward-snowden-gets-russian-passport-after-swearing-oath-of-allegiance https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/02/edward-snowd...