4 ms·

People keep forgetting because of this good old two-pronged psy-op: "Wow, you must wear a tinfoil hat, you really think the government is tapping your phones?"

People keep forgetting because of this good old two-pronged psy-op: "Wow, you must wear a tinfoil hat, you really think the government is tapping your phones?" "Wow, you didn't already know that every phone is tapped? You're so behind the times. Every cool person is already jaded about that." There's almost no will from voters to fight this, so the discourse instantly leaps from "impossible" to "acceptable".

CatWChainsaw 3y ago
This is similar to the climate change problem. First it was a problem for the people of 2050. Then 2023 happened and it was too late so why bother doing anything.
myshpa 3y ago
And if it's in a 'I can't believe they would be doing it, really?' territory (black ops, black sites, torture, drone killings, ...), they make a movie about it, effectively normalizing the action for the audience.
- floorballchamp 3y ago
  "They"? Is Hollywood now part of Pentagon/NSA/...?
  - Mo3 3y ago
    Hollywood has been influenced by the Pentagon for a long time.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
      To put more context in this: movies made with military equipment need special approval by the us military, and they will not generally approve “unpatriotic” movies and blacklist studios who do make movies they disapprove of… from Defense dot gov: “ The Defense Department has a long-standing relationship with Hollywood. In fact, it’s been working with filmmakers for nearly 100 years with a goal that’s two-fold: to accurately depict military stories and make sure sensitive information isn’t disclosed.” https://www.defense.gov/News/Inside-DOD/blog/article/2062735/how-why-the-dod-works-with-hollywood https://www.defense.gov/News/Inside-DOD/blog/article/2062735...
      - 93po 3y ago
        If this is information anyone can get by flying a drone around military equipment or buying old equipment offered for sale, this seems like a startling suppression of first amendment rights
        bell-cot 3y ago
        How so? Hollywood wants to make money. And most Hollywood decision makers want to brag about having Important Friends in High Places (like the DoD). Producing anti-war movies (or otherwise making the DoD look bad) would get them ~nothing that they really want.
        floorballchamp 3y ago
        That goes down the same conspiracy theory rabbit hole like claiming that all state employee bureaucrats just try to bloat their dept. to have more power which ultimately wastes tax money. Some people have standards and want to do good. Some of them work in Hollywood. And some of them in your city's administration. Not everybody is as selfish and unethical as portrayed here. Maybe it reflects on the person expressing such theories though.
        solveit 3y ago
        The theory is actually that some people have standards, some people just want to advance, and in the long run the latter will inevitably dominate the organization.
        bell-cot 3y ago
        Yep. About as "conspiracy" as "managers in the XYZ Corp. Sales Dept. are all eager to make XYZ Corp's products look good". Meanwhile...the US Army's Public Affair Dept. is headed by a 2-star general (same rank as the top general in command of an entire Army Division), and its mission is: "Public affairs fulfills the Army's obligation to keep the American people and the Army informed, and helps to establish the conditions that lead to confidence in America's Army and its readiness to conduct operations in peacetime, conflict and war." (Source: https://www.army.mil/publicaffairs/ https://www.army.mil/publicaffairs/ I'd guess that the Navy, Air Force, etc. all have similar...)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - myshpa 3y ago
    https://worldbeyondwar.org/the-pentagon-and-cia-have-shaped-thousands-of-hollywood-movies-into-super-effective-propaganda/ https://worldbeyondwar.org/the-pentagon-and-cia-have-shaped-... The Pentagon and CIA Have Shaped Thousands of Hollywood Movies into Super Effective Propaganda https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/how-hollywood-became-the-unofficial-propaganda-arm-of-the-u-s-military-1.5560575 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/how-hollywood-became-the-unof... How Hollywood became the unofficial propaganda arm of the U.S. military https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2022/08/04/new-documentary-scrutinizes-pentagon-hollywood-relationship-but-is-it-propaganda/ https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2022... New documentary scrutinizes Pentagon-Hollywood relationship — but is it propaganda? https://www.jstor.org/stable/45129369 https://www.jstor.org/stable/45129369 The Historical Roots of CIA-Hollywood Propaganda https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/may/26/top-gun-for-hire-why-hollywood-is-the-us-militarys-best-wingman https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/may/26/top-gun-for-hir... Top Gun for hire: why Hollywood is the US military’s best wingman https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-eu-for-more-surveillance/ https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-ho... How a Hollywood star lobbies the EU for more surveillance The European Union debates a new law that could force platforms to scan all private messages for signs of child abuse. Its most prominent advocate is the actor Ashton Kutcher.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
> "Wow, you didn't already know that every phone is tapped?..." Not sure I'd call it psy-op. When it became feasible for the NSA to essentially tap every phone in the U.S. I think most of us just presume that they will do just that. Historically, it's what those with power will do — exercise it. And for all number of examples in history we are not naive enough to think that their saying they're not doing it (are no longer doing it) means nothing.
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  > When it became feasible for the NSA to essentially tap every phone in the U.S. I think most of us just presume that they will do just that. Much narrower claims were dismissed as paranoia before Snowden's disclosures. The comment you replied to made that point specifically.
- bandrami 3y ago
  One bit of trivia that came out of it is that since WWI, the FBI has received from USPS a photograph of the destination and return address of every letter mailed in the US (the analogy with telephony metadata is pretty obvious).
bandrami 3y ago
When they brought back the X-Files for one season a few years ago they did an episode on this premise: the shadowy conspiracy master actually releases youtube videos describing what he does, on the grounds that nobody knows the difference between truth and untruth anymore, so it only helps him to further muddy the waters.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago

This is similar to the climate change problem. First it was a problem for the people of 2050. Then 2023 happened and it was too late so why bother doing anything.

myshpa 3y ago

And if it's in a 'I can't believe they would be doing it, really?' territory (black ops, black sites, torture, drone killings, ...), they make a movie about it, effectively normalizing the action for the audience.

floorballchamp 3y ago
"They"? Is Hollywood now part of Pentagon/NSA/...?
- Mo3 3y ago
  Hollywood has been influenced by the Pentagon for a long time.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
    To put more context in this: movies made with military equipment need special approval by the us military, and they will not generally approve “unpatriotic” movies and blacklist studios who do make movies they disapprove of… from Defense dot gov: “ The Defense Department has a long-standing relationship with Hollywood. In fact, it’s been working with filmmakers for nearly 100 years with a goal that’s two-fold: to accurately depict military stories and make sure sensitive information isn’t disclosed.” https://www.defense.gov/News/Inside-DOD/blog/article/2062735/how-why-the-dod-works-with-hollywood https://www.defense.gov/News/Inside-DOD/blog/article/2062735...
    - 93po 3y ago
      If this is information anyone can get by flying a drone around military equipment or buying old equipment offered for sale, this seems like a startling suppression of first amendment rights
      - bell-cot 3y ago
        How so? Hollywood wants to make money. And most Hollywood decision makers want to brag about having Important Friends in High Places (like the DoD). Producing anti-war movies (or otherwise making the DoD look bad) would get them ~nothing that they really want.
        floorballchamp 3y ago
        That goes down the same conspiracy theory rabbit hole like claiming that all state employee bureaucrats just try to bloat their dept. to have more power which ultimately wastes tax money. Some people have standards and want to do good. Some of them work in Hollywood. And some of them in your city's administration. Not everybody is as selfish and unethical as portrayed here. Maybe it reflects on the person expressing such theories though.
        solveit 3y ago
        The theory is actually that some people have standards, some people just want to advance, and in the long run the latter will inevitably dominate the organization.
        bell-cot 3y ago
        Yep. About as "conspiracy" as "managers in the XYZ Corp. Sales Dept. are all eager to make XYZ Corp's products look good". Meanwhile...the US Army's Public Affair Dept. is headed by a 2-star general (same rank as the top general in command of an entire Army Division), and its mission is: "Public affairs fulfills the Army's obligation to keep the American people and the Army informed, and helps to establish the conditions that lead to confidence in America's Army and its readiness to conduct operations in peacetime, conflict and war." (Source: https://www.army.mil/publicaffairs/ https://www.army.mil/publicaffairs/ I'd guess that the Navy, Air Force, etc. all have similar...)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- myshpa 3y ago
  https://worldbeyondwar.org/the-pentagon-and-cia-have-shaped-thousands-of-hollywood-movies-into-super-effective-propaganda/ https://worldbeyondwar.org/the-pentagon-and-cia-have-shaped-... The Pentagon and CIA Have Shaped Thousands of Hollywood Movies into Super Effective Propaganda https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/how-hollywood-became-the-unofficial-propaganda-arm-of-the-u-s-military-1.5560575 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/how-hollywood-became-the-unof... How Hollywood became the unofficial propaganda arm of the U.S. military https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2022/08/04/new-documentary-scrutinizes-pentagon-hollywood-relationship-but-is-it-propaganda/ https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2022... New documentary scrutinizes Pentagon-Hollywood relationship — but is it propaganda? https://www.jstor.org/stable/45129369 https://www.jstor.org/stable/45129369 The Historical Roots of CIA-Hollywood Propaganda https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/may/26/top-gun-for-hire-why-hollywood-is-the-us-militarys-best-wingman https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/may/26/top-gun-for-hir... Top Gun for hire: why Hollywood is the US military’s best wingman https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-eu-for-more-surveillance/ https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-ho... How a Hollywood star lobbies the EU for more surveillance The European Union debates a new law that could force platforms to scan all private messages for signs of child abuse. Its most prominent advocate is the actor Ashton Kutcher.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

> "Wow, you didn't already know that every phone is tapped?..." Not sure I'd call it psy-op. When it became feasible for the NSA to essentially tap every phone in the U.S. I think most of us just presume that they will do just that. Historically, it's what those with power will do — exercise it. And for all number of examples in history we are not naive enough to think that their saying they're not doing it (are no longer doing it) means nothing.

pseudalopex 3y ago
> When it became feasible for the NSA to essentially tap every phone in the U.S. I think most of us just presume that they will do just that. Much narrower claims were dismissed as paranoia before Snowden's disclosures. The comment you replied to made that point specifically.
bandrami 3y ago
One bit of trivia that came out of it is that since WWI, the FBI has received from USPS a photograph of the destination and return address of every letter mailed in the US (the analogy with telephony metadata is pretty obvious).

bandrami 3y ago

When they brought back the X-Files for one season a few years ago they did an episode on this premise: the shadowy conspiracy master actually releases youtube videos describing what he does, on the grounds that nobody knows the difference between truth and untruth anymore, so it only helps him to further muddy the waters.