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The anti Airbnb narrative always assumes we are talking about some crappy apartment that someone was duped into staying in. Let's entertain the idea for just a

by kbos87 3y ago

The anti Airbnb narrative always assumes we are talking about some crappy apartment that someone was duped into staying in. Let's entertain the idea for just a minute that you are an extended family visiting NYC. You need 2-3 bedrooms, some amount of space to spread out, and a kitchen could potentially save you some real money vs. eating out for every meal. Hotel rooms like that really don't exist, at least for normal people. On Airbnb you could probably find a comfortable luxury condo that checks every one of those boxes and saves you thousands of dollars compared to booking 3 hotel rooms.

wombat-man 3y ago
ok well it's a 2-3 bedroom apartment a family or roommates can't live in then. Plenty of hotels have rooms with two queens that can comfortably sleep 4 people.
- flashgordon 3y ago
  Come on. As much as i hate Airbnb this doesn't paint hotels in a good light for larger groups or those with kids. When you have stricter dietary restrictions cooking our own meals is highly desirable and affordable hotels in this area - nil. Travelling in a group .. okay good luck. What I hate about Airbnb is all the hidden fees and ridiculous homework you have to do when leaving. Regulation could have gone to fix that but yeah here are some flying pigs!
  - wombat-man 3y ago
    Come on, people live in this city and rent is high as you might have heard. People are getting priced out so middlmen can make bank renting these things? If staying in a hotel isn't convenient or affordable I'm sorry? Perhaps one day you can figure it out.
  - mellavora 3y ago
    > What I hate about Airbnb is all the hidden fees and ridiculous homework you have to do when leaving. Regulation could have gone to fix that but yeah here are some flying pigs! Airbnb could have gone to fix that. Why leave it to regulation?
    - toofy 3y ago
      > Airbnb could have gone to fix that. Why leave it to regulation? when? they’ve had years. companies can’t logically fail to address a well known problem and then complain when regulations happen. there’s a sure way to slow regulations—address problems that you know will lead to regulation. don’t do… nothing, and then complain.
    - flashgordon 3y ago
      I agree. Airbnb should have done this instead of shafting the guests. This is why no tears lost seeing the crackdown! Frankly when I travel I avoid ABNB like the plague but still sad to see tourists with real needs having to scramble!
  - fineIllregister 3y ago
    The government's obligations to its residents is far higher than tourists with very specific needs. There is no tourism if the area can't support workers to serve tourists due to inflated housing costs.
- meling 3y ago
  My experience with NYC hotels is that rooms are really cramped, so I wouldn’t call it comfortable for four people. And not to mention prices of hotels aren’t exactly cheap, and this law clearly isn’t going to help lower hotel prices. But maybe fewer tourists is what NYC needs.
  - wombat-man 3y ago
    Yeah if this prices out tourists to the point where it's a problem for the tourism industry, we can deal with that later. For now let's get these apartments back in the regular rental market.
the_gastropod 3y ago
The anti-Airbnb narrative I find more common (and compelling) is that they cause even less housing to be available in markets already suffering from low housing supply. New York is a prime example. Airbnb hosts buy up apartments that people could live in, and short-term rent them out to tourists instead.
adriand 3y ago
That’s exactly right and that’s what my family and I did when we visited NY. We are a family of four. Typical hotel accommodations suck for families! As you pointed out, it’s not just the space, it’s also the cooking facilities that are so important. Our typical approach is breakfast in the unit, picnic lunches while touring around, dinner out. Sometimes we’ll cook dinner in our unit too, especially for our kids. If you’re in a city for several days, you get tired of your kids eating pizza and burgers every night because nothing else is familiar (and they do too). They welcome a healthy home cooked meal with the simple foods they are used to. As such going grocery shopping in our new city of residence is a key early part of every trip. I think the anti-AirBnB narrative also misses a couple of other things: - this is a huge win for hotels, and one they have lobbied for fiercely. - there are people who own apartments in NY that couldn’t afford to live there if they weren’t able to earn some money from renting out their space on AirBnB. Lastly, I’m willing to bet that the housing crisis in NY will continue unabated despite this move.
- mellavora 3y ago
  > there are people who own apartments in NY that couldn’t afford to live there if they weren’t able to earn some money from renting out their space on AirBnB. Yes, but also turning every apartment into a potential revenue source puts upward pressure on rents. So there are also people who cannot afford apartments in NYC because of short-term rentals.
  - nequo 3y ago
    > So there are also people who cannot afford apartments in NYC because of short-term rentals. Do we know how many? How much of an effect is this expected to have on rents?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mellavora 3y ago
Don't know about NYC, but in the midwest there are hotels that specialized in providing construction workers a home away from home for 1-2 weeks. You get a bedroom and minimal kitchen for 125-150/night. It isn't luxury, but most certain is: > Hotel rooms like that ... at least for normal people.
jfim 3y ago
> Let's entertain the idea for just a minute that you are an extended family visiting NYC. You need 2-3 bedrooms, some amount of space to spread out, and a kitchen could potentially save you some real money vs. eating out for every meal. Is there a particular reason why extended stay hotels don't work out for that kind of stay? They typically have a kitchen, fridge, and laundry facilities.
- coredog64 3y ago
  No such thing in Manhattan. Heck, even a mid-tier chain hotel on 5th Avenue is going to feel claustrophobic for one or two people, let alone a family.
  - jfim 3y ago
    What do you mean? Homewood suites seems to have a location in Manhattan, for example: https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/nycmmhw-homewood-suites-new-york-midtown-manhattan-times-square-south-ny/rooms/?category=suites https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/nycmmhw-homewood-suites-new...
Symbiote 3y ago
In Europe hotels which include a larger space and a small kitchen are called apartments hotels or apart-hotels. They're more or less common in different countries, and sometimes are fairly pricy, although perhaps not compared to several hotel rooms. I've seen them most often in places you'd expect families to visit, like non-city tourist destinations.

by kbos87 3y ago

wombat-man 3y ago

ok well it's a 2-3 bedroom apartment a family or roommates can't live in then. Plenty of hotels have rooms with two queens that can comfortably sleep 4 people.

flashgordon 3y ago
Come on. As much as i hate Airbnb this doesn't paint hotels in a good light for larger groups or those with kids. When you have stricter dietary restrictions cooking our own meals is highly desirable and affordable hotels in this area - nil. Travelling in a group .. okay good luck. What I hate about Airbnb is all the hidden fees and ridiculous homework you have to do when leaving. Regulation could have gone to fix that but yeah here are some flying pigs!
- wombat-man 3y ago
  Come on, people live in this city and rent is high as you might have heard. People are getting priced out so middlmen can make bank renting these things? If staying in a hotel isn't convenient or affordable I'm sorry? Perhaps one day you can figure it out.
- mellavora 3y ago
  > What I hate about Airbnb is all the hidden fees and ridiculous homework you have to do when leaving. Regulation could have gone to fix that but yeah here are some flying pigs! Airbnb could have gone to fix that. Why leave it to regulation?
  - toofy 3y ago
    > Airbnb could have gone to fix that. Why leave it to regulation? when? they’ve had years. companies can’t logically fail to address a well known problem and then complain when regulations happen. there’s a sure way to slow regulations—address problems that you know will lead to regulation. don’t do… nothing, and then complain.
  - flashgordon 3y ago
    I agree. Airbnb should have done this instead of shafting the guests. This is why no tears lost seeing the crackdown! Frankly when I travel I avoid ABNB like the plague but still sad to see tourists with real needs having to scramble!
- fineIllregister 3y ago
  The government's obligations to its residents is far higher than tourists with very specific needs. There is no tourism if the area can't support workers to serve tourists due to inflated housing costs.
meling 3y ago
My experience with NYC hotels is that rooms are really cramped, so I wouldn’t call it comfortable for four people. And not to mention prices of hotels aren’t exactly cheap, and this law clearly isn’t going to help lower hotel prices. But maybe fewer tourists is what NYC needs.
- wombat-man 3y ago
  Yeah if this prices out tourists to the point where it's a problem for the tourism industry, we can deal with that later. For now let's get these apartments back in the regular rental market.

the_gastropod 3y ago

The anti-Airbnb narrative I find more common (and compelling) is that they cause even less housing to be available in markets already suffering from low housing supply. New York is a prime example. Airbnb hosts buy up apartments that people could live in, and short-term rent them out to tourists instead.

adriand 3y ago

That’s exactly right and that’s what my family and I did when we visited NY. We are a family of four. Typical hotel accommodations suck for families! As you pointed out, it’s not just the space, it’s also the cooking facilities that are so important. Our typical approach is breakfast in the unit, picnic lunches while touring around, dinner out. Sometimes we’ll cook dinner in our unit too, especially for our kids. If you’re in a city for several days, you get tired of your kids eating pizza and burgers every night because nothing else is familiar (and they do too). They welcome a healthy home cooked meal with the simple foods they are used to. As such going grocery shopping in our new city of residence is a key early part of every trip. I think the anti-AirBnB narrative also misses a couple of other things: - this is a huge win for hotels, and one they have lobbied for fiercely. - there are people who own apartments in NY that couldn’t afford to live there if they weren’t able to earn some money from renting out their space on AirBnB. Lastly, I’m willing to bet that the housing crisis in NY will continue unabated despite this move.

mellavora 3y ago
> there are people who own apartments in NY that couldn’t afford to live there if they weren’t able to earn some money from renting out their space on AirBnB. Yes, but also turning every apartment into a potential revenue source puts upward pressure on rents. So there are also people who cannot afford apartments in NYC because of short-term rentals.
- nequo 3y ago
  > So there are also people who cannot afford apartments in NYC because of short-term rentals. Do we know how many? How much of an effect is this expected to have on rents?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mellavora 3y ago

Don't know about NYC, but in the midwest there are hotels that specialized in providing construction workers a home away from home for 1-2 weeks. You get a bedroom and minimal kitchen for 125-150/night. It isn't luxury, but most certain is: > Hotel rooms like that ... at least for normal people.

jfim 3y ago

> Let's entertain the idea for just a minute that you are an extended family visiting NYC. You need 2-3 bedrooms, some amount of space to spread out, and a kitchen could potentially save you some real money vs. eating out for every meal. Is there a particular reason why extended stay hotels don't work out for that kind of stay? They typically have a kitchen, fridge, and laundry facilities.

coredog64 3y ago
No such thing in Manhattan. Heck, even a mid-tier chain hotel on 5th Avenue is going to feel claustrophobic for one or two people, let alone a family.
- jfim 3y ago
  What do you mean? Homewood suites seems to have a location in Manhattan, for example: https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/nycmmhw-homewood-suites-new-york-midtown-manhattan-times-square-south-ny/rooms/?category=suites https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/nycmmhw-homewood-suites-new...

Symbiote 3y ago

In Europe hotels which include a larger space and a small kitchen are called apartments hotels or apart-hotels. They're more or less common in different countries, and sometimes are fairly pricy, although perhaps not compared to several hotel rooms. I've seen them most often in places you'd expect families to visit, like non-city tourist destinations.