3 ms·

Why the assumption that everybody should grow? Some people are perfectly fine as SWE and don't want to become manager, tech lead or org leader. In some companie

Why the assumption that everybody should grow? Some people are perfectly fine as SWE and don't want to become manager, tech lead or org leader. In some companies, you can have a very high salary as a SWE and still learn new things every day.

cebert 3y ago
You have to be concerned about age discrimination or assumptions based on your career trajectory at some point if you stay in a lower level IC position. If you’re in your mid forties, still “just” a software engineer, and interviewing for new positions, this will catch up with you. How do you explain having 15-20 years experience as a software developer with no career progression?
- ditonal 3y ago
  First, moving from an engineering role to a management role is not "career progression", it's a lateral career switch. Secondly, you don't have to explain anything. Smart hiring managers will understand that you focused your career mastering a craft and that you're still working on that craft you mastered. As for the dumb hiring managers, it's best if you can avoid working for them. One thing you'll learn as you get older is that you can't please everyone all the time and if someone is foolish enough to hold stupid things against you, good riddance to bad rubbish. If you look around a bit, you'll find there's far, far more opportunities for intelligent old coders than unintelligent old managers.
  - cebert 3y ago
    You don’t think not even progressing to a senior engineering role or lead engineer role after two decades in the profession would be a red flag? These are still IC roles, just more senior. I would sure have a lot of questions at least.
    - theduder99 3y ago
      not a red flag at all..as long as they are competent at dev work. Many devs just want to dev and have no interest in taking on lead responsibilities, architecture, negotiating with product owners, attending lots of unproductive meetings, etc.
    - coffeebeqn 3y ago
      Sr Engineer is a terminal role for most people. If you can build quality software and are a somewhat pleasant human being then I don’t see anything wrong with it. If everyone’s a director then who’s getting the work done? There aren’t that many leadership roles compared to IC roles.
    - piva00 3y ago
      That's your personal bias showing, I'd never be questioning anyone who decided they found a good role where they feel competent and secure about their job and craft, much the contrary as Peter's Principle usually apply very quickly to the careerists. Senior engineer is usually where a lot of competent folks stop, the role of Staff/Principal starts to become quite different, some people just want to be good at helping the business to build things. A good senior will be the necessary glue between team and the larger org (including the Staff/Principal layer), facilitating a lot of stuff that isn't immediately visible but is definitely felt when you miss it. On top of that, there's not even close to enough positions to promote every single senior engineer to a higher level in most companies. Not everyone wants to play the career game.
  - intothemild 3y ago
    This. I'm an EM, and going from an IC to a TL or EM isn't a career progression. It's a career change. I've known some amazing ICs with terrible managerial skills, they are adept at what they do, but they lack the skills needed to handle people, or to constantly context shift all day, every day. Now what happens when you suddenly get that IC into a managerial role, and force them to context shift, or manage people's needs, and balance the team dynamics? They quit, or others under then quit. Perhaps both. I very much dislike this article for two reasons; 1. She outlines EM as part of a career progression that ICs go on. 2. She was part of two absolute rocketships and didn't realise the reasons she got where she was is at least partially because of that. Any EM should be aware that not everyone can do their job.. and any EM should be part of a hiring process and keenly know that when you see a FAANG on someone's resume, people tend to have a bias either for or against it. Usually for.
  - izacus 3y ago
    > First, moving from an engineering role to a management role is not "career progression", it's a lateral career switch. That's a cool sentiment, but it's not what hiring managers and many many other managers think. They'll just flag you as "something wrong with that guy if hes not managing by now" and you're still out of job.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  > how do you explain having 15-20 years experience as a software developer with no career progression? by deleting the old information on your resume and online profiles, and keeping it at just the last 6 years everyone hiring 8-10+ years is thinking you have a mythical level of capabilities, not just "coding professionally for that many years"
- xyzzy4747 3y ago
  The goal is to save and invest so much money that if you have age discrimination against you, it doesn't matter.

cebert 3y ago

You have to be concerned about age discrimination or assumptions based on your career trajectory at some point if you stay in a lower level IC position. If you’re in your mid forties, still “just” a software engineer, and interviewing for new positions, this will catch up with you. How do you explain having 15-20 years experience as a software developer with no career progression?

ditonal 3y ago
First, moving from an engineering role to a management role is not "career progression", it's a lateral career switch. Secondly, you don't have to explain anything. Smart hiring managers will understand that you focused your career mastering a craft and that you're still working on that craft you mastered. As for the dumb hiring managers, it's best if you can avoid working for them. One thing you'll learn as you get older is that you can't please everyone all the time and if someone is foolish enough to hold stupid things against you, good riddance to bad rubbish. If you look around a bit, you'll find there's far, far more opportunities for intelligent old coders than unintelligent old managers.
- cebert 3y ago
  You don’t think not even progressing to a senior engineering role or lead engineer role after two decades in the profession would be a red flag? These are still IC roles, just more senior. I would sure have a lot of questions at least.
  - theduder99 3y ago
    not a red flag at all..as long as they are competent at dev work. Many devs just want to dev and have no interest in taking on lead responsibilities, architecture, negotiating with product owners, attending lots of unproductive meetings, etc.
  - coffeebeqn 3y ago
    Sr Engineer is a terminal role for most people. If you can build quality software and are a somewhat pleasant human being then I don’t see anything wrong with it. If everyone’s a director then who’s getting the work done? There aren’t that many leadership roles compared to IC roles.
  - piva00 3y ago
    That's your personal bias showing, I'd never be questioning anyone who decided they found a good role where they feel competent and secure about their job and craft, much the contrary as Peter's Principle usually apply very quickly to the careerists. Senior engineer is usually where a lot of competent folks stop, the role of Staff/Principal starts to become quite different, some people just want to be good at helping the business to build things. A good senior will be the necessary glue between team and the larger org (including the Staff/Principal layer), facilitating a lot of stuff that isn't immediately visible but is definitely felt when you miss it. On top of that, there's not even close to enough positions to promote every single senior engineer to a higher level in most companies. Not everyone wants to play the career game.
- intothemild 3y ago
  This. I'm an EM, and going from an IC to a TL or EM isn't a career progression. It's a career change. I've known some amazing ICs with terrible managerial skills, they are adept at what they do, but they lack the skills needed to handle people, or to constantly context shift all day, every day. Now what happens when you suddenly get that IC into a managerial role, and force them to context shift, or manage people's needs, and balance the team dynamics? They quit, or others under then quit. Perhaps both. I very much dislike this article for two reasons; 1. She outlines EM as part of a career progression that ICs go on. 2. She was part of two absolute rocketships and didn't realise the reasons she got where she was is at least partially because of that. Any EM should be aware that not everyone can do their job.. and any EM should be part of a hiring process and keenly know that when you see a FAANG on someone's resume, people tend to have a bias either for or against it. Usually for.
- izacus 3y ago
  > First, moving from an engineering role to a management role is not "career progression", it's a lateral career switch. That's a cool sentiment, but it's not what hiring managers and many many other managers think. They'll just flag you as "something wrong with that guy if hes not managing by now" and you're still out of job.
yieldcrv 3y ago
> how do you explain having 15-20 years experience as a software developer with no career progression? by deleting the old information on your resume and online profiles, and keeping it at just the last 6 years everyone hiring 8-10+ years is thinking you have a mythical level of capabilities, not just "coding professionally for that many years"
xyzzy4747 3y ago
The goal is to save and invest so much money that if you have age discrimination against you, it doesn't matter.