3 ms·

Based on all these sorts of articles, it feels like the only way to advance your career in the US is to get into management at some point. In the EU, and Finlan

by wryyy 3y ago

Based on all these sorts of articles, it feels like the only way to advance your career in the US is to get into management at some point. In the EU, and Finland where I'm from, there's nothing wrong and there's a path for being a more senior IC long term, working on more and more complex tasks. The culture is different though, there is not always the same kind of hierarchy as in the US either. I guess in the US a similar path could be a Staff Engineer role where you could stay more technical I guess.

gabereiser 3y ago
Those who are busy at the principal level and above don’t usually write blog posts about how they got there. You read more about management because of the very nature of management. It’s a people thing. I’ve read equally as important articles from distinguished engineers. No, you do NOT need to go into management to advance your career. In fact, most engineers I’ve met in my 20-odd years engineering and leading, would make lousy managers. Most companies worth the weight will have IC tracks all the way to Director or even VP.
- wryyy 3y ago
  Fair.
crop_rotation 3y ago
The thing is the IC role has an implicit ceiling unless your org is deeply technical with a complex technical product. The US has the same path with arguably more options and better compensation at higher IC levels, but the non IC path has both of these even better, and you will have a much better chance of influencing what exact gets done.
- wryyy 3y ago
  Good point. There are definitely more options in the US for all the roles than in EU just because of the scale: There are more bigger tech companies here.
yodsanklai 3y ago
I wonder, in big American companies, you can have a really high salary as SWE. I was under the impression that it wasn't the case in European company. Regarding the article, it's very biased, plenty of people don't want this kind of career progression. It's more a matter of personality than culture I'd say.
coffeebeqn 3y ago
It’s becoming more common. Staff and principal are fairly common roles and they’re well respected in the US. All the fancier roles like “Architect” have been merged into those now
- piva00 3y ago
  My impression is that Staff and Principal are basically a different make-up on what Architect used to be. A bit less ivory tower dictators but still working in the role of overviewing larger systems, coming up with novel solutions (usually proof of concepts later developed into production by other teams), bridging technical gaps, and dictating broader guidelines on how the larger system should behave. Just an iteration on the Architect role to be a bit more hands-on.

by wryyy 3y ago

gabereiser 3y ago

Those who are busy at the principal level and above don’t usually write blog posts about how they got there. You read more about management because of the very nature of management. It’s a people thing. I’ve read equally as important articles from distinguished engineers. No, you do NOT need to go into management to advance your career. In fact, most engineers I’ve met in my 20-odd years engineering and leading, would make lousy managers. Most companies worth the weight will have IC tracks all the way to Director or even VP.

wryyy 3y ago
Fair.

crop_rotation 3y ago

The thing is the IC role has an implicit ceiling unless your org is deeply technical with a complex technical product. The US has the same path with arguably more options and better compensation at higher IC levels, but the non IC path has both of these even better, and you will have a much better chance of influencing what exact gets done.

wryyy 3y ago
Good point. There are definitely more options in the US for all the roles than in EU just because of the scale: There are more bigger tech companies here.

yodsanklai 3y ago

I wonder, in big American companies, you can have a really high salary as SWE. I was under the impression that it wasn't the case in European company. Regarding the article, it's very biased, plenty of people don't want this kind of career progression. It's more a matter of personality than culture I'd say.

coffeebeqn 3y ago

It’s becoming more common. Staff and principal are fairly common roles and they’re well respected in the US. All the fancier roles like “Architect” have been merged into those now

piva00 3y ago
My impression is that Staff and Principal are basically a different make-up on what Architect used to be. A bit less ivory tower dictators but still working in the role of overviewing larger systems, coming up with novel solutions (usually proof of concepts later developed into production by other teams), bridging technical gaps, and dictating broader guidelines on how the larger system should behave. Just an iteration on the Architect role to be a bit more hands-on.