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I'm struck how many of principals in the article track closely with the founding principals of America.
by bdunbar 15y ago
I'm struck how many of principals in the article track closely with the founding principals of America.
- DanielBMarkham 15y agoAmerica was probably the closest the world has had to a "clean slate" design: lots of educated developers, a common understanding of design patterns, lack of external pressure, and more of a common desire to set something up than to control it. These conditions might repeat themselves in the near future. Hard to tell.
- eli_gottlieb 15y agoIt was also fairly naive. For example, the Founders of America knew nothing about Duverger's Law or Arrow's Impossibility Theorem or most of the rest of modern political science.
- bdunbar 15y agoI don't know about naive - that word has some negative connotations that may not apply. You can build a system that doesn't suck by copying what works, discarding what doesn't. And the Founders had a lot of experience with systems that didn't work very well.
- eli_gottlieb 15y agoSorry, I meant "naive" as in "naive algorithm".
- bdunbar 15y agoHaw. I forgot we're at HN - where aspy is the new normal (smile).
- eli_gottlieb 15y agoI don't actually have Asperger's; I just tend to (in a rare act, for me ;-)) give people the respect of not calling them "naive" in the ordinary sense without actually knowing their decision-making process.
- moldbug 15y agoSome had probably read Filmer, who knew more about political science than "the rest of modern political science:" http://www.constitution.org/eng/patriarcha.htm http://www.constitution.org/eng/patriarcha.htm Unfortunately, Filmer was not PC in 1770s Massachusetts. Probably even the Virginians turned up their noses at him. We're all paying for the result. If you want a real laugh at the Founders' expense, though, read this: http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=2429 http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?documen...
- hef19898 15y agoThat's the intersting part, yes. And not just the founding fathers, if you look at Napoleons code civil, the constitution Germany passed after WW II and the like they all share some basic principles and values. Almost seems back then they had more insight to human nature than we have now, at least sometimes.
- eli_gottlieb 15y agoThe post-WW2 West German constitution was written at the behest of the Americans, the British and the French. That should serve as to some hint of why it came out looking so American and French.
- moldbug 15y agoYou mean "the Americans" and "American" respectively. Here's a somewhat hagiographic but generally accurate work on the American origin of all present "European" institutions: http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Century-Generations-Extraordinary-Diplomats/dp/0306818469 http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Century-Generations-Extraordi... TL;DR: all "European" institutions were designed and remain supervised by EUR at State. This should only surprise people who think the Warsaw Pact was in some sense Polish.
- hef19898 15y agoThe allies wanted one to be written, so yes quite likely their constitutions where IMHO looked at during the process, espacially since they are pretty good. But it is also important to note that a: it's not realy a constitution, only basic law (Grundgesetz in German) b: The guys who wrote it were democrats who saw the fall of the monarchy, a doomed democracy and the rise, reign and fall of the Nazis. Some of them even were part of the resistance. And that shows. That current politicians are maybe following the words of it and definitly not the spirit, well thats a different story. P.S.: The different view points from the two sides of the atlantic are fascinating.
- ctdonath 15y agoYes; his points are exactly why the Constitution was written the way it was - and make clear that moving away from it, as we are, is a very bad idea. Next question is how to push that trend back to our founding documents, when those driving us away are willing to go to great lengths to drag us where they're going.