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> I can’t think of any other place where people’s sense of net worth is as tied up with their house price as it is in the UK, while at the same time the increas

> I can’t think of any other place where people’s sense of net worth is as tied up with their house price as it is in the UK, while at the same time the increase in house price that people have been conditioned to believe is the norm over the last decades is wholly unsustainable given the stagnant wages. Take a look at house price to wage ratio over the last two decades. United States. In inflation-adjusted dollars, house prices are up 118% since 1965, but income is up only 18% [1]; alternatively, house-price-to-income ratio has increased from 90x in 2012 to 135x in 2022 [2]. US Millennials have been deemed "the unluckiest generation" when it comes to home ownership in the US. [1] https://www.realestatewitch.com/house-price-to-income-ratio-2021/ https://www.realestatewitch.com/house-price-to-income-ratio-... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/591435/house-price-to-income-ratio-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/591435/house-price-to-in...

nerdponx 3y ago
AFAIK Canada is even worse than the US right now, or at least Southern Ontario.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
And in the same time period, the average house size has doubled from 1300sqft to 2600 sqft. So people are paying about twice as much for twice the house.
- tmnvix 3y ago
  But not twice as much land.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  This is a true but it's a trick. Sqft in real estate isn't purely the dimensions of the home. A 1300sqft home can become a 2600sqft by virtue of hanging some drywall in the basement. Houses aren't really twice the size they were just sold with unfinished basements new, the occupants later finished the basement (mostly just drywall and a little hvac work) and then it was sold again at its "larger" size.
  - sneed_chucker 3y ago
    Houses have gotten bigger though, it's not just people drywalling their basements... I live in Texas where they don't build houses with basements because the soil won't support it. First place I lived was a typical working class family home built in the 1940s: 2 bed, 1 bath, kitchen, living room, laundry room - 1100 square feet total. Meanwhile most new construction homes here are over 2000 square foot.
- coderjames 3y ago
  And I think this is really crummy and unfortunate. Myself, my wife, and my one child would be very happy in a 1,300 sqft house but really don't need or want a 2,600 sqft house. So house prices increasing along with house size is still problematic.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    1300 sqft homes are still common, in my experience. They're not detached homes, but most people in the market for 1300sqft homes are looking to save money, and compromising on lot size saves a lot of money. But that 1300sqft was average. Which meant a lot of homes were smaller than that. My brother once owned a 600 sqft detached house from that era.
refurb 3y ago
since 1965, but income is up only 18% All I have to do is look around to see that can't possible be true.
- CraigJPerry 3y ago
  is it not just private debt is the difference you’re seeing? Debt obviously isn’t income but its first order effects look similar from the outside. Inflation adjusted income - purchasing power - is in the ballpark of 20% since 65.

nerdponx 3y ago

AFAIK Canada is even worse than the US right now, or at least Southern Ontario.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

And in the same time period, the average house size has doubled from 1300sqft to 2600 sqft. So people are paying about twice as much for twice the house.

tmnvix 3y ago
But not twice as much land.
willcipriano 3y ago
This is a true but it's a trick. Sqft in real estate isn't purely the dimensions of the home. A 1300sqft home can become a 2600sqft by virtue of hanging some drywall in the basement. Houses aren't really twice the size they were just sold with unfinished basements new, the occupants later finished the basement (mostly just drywall and a little hvac work) and then it was sold again at its "larger" size.
- sneed_chucker 3y ago
  Houses have gotten bigger though, it's not just people drywalling their basements... I live in Texas where they don't build houses with basements because the soil won't support it. First place I lived was a typical working class family home built in the 1940s: 2 bed, 1 bath, kitchen, living room, laundry room - 1100 square feet total. Meanwhile most new construction homes here are over 2000 square foot.
coderjames 3y ago
And I think this is really crummy and unfortunate. Myself, my wife, and my one child would be very happy in a 1,300 sqft house but really don't need or want a 2,600 sqft house. So house prices increasing along with house size is still problematic.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  1300 sqft homes are still common, in my experience. They're not detached homes, but most people in the market for 1300sqft homes are looking to save money, and compromising on lot size saves a lot of money. But that 1300sqft was average. Which meant a lot of homes were smaller than that. My brother once owned a 600 sqft detached house from that era.

refurb 3y ago

since 1965, but income is up only 18% All I have to do is look around to see that can't possible be true.

CraigJPerry 3y ago
is it not just private debt is the difference you’re seeing? Debt obviously isn’t income but its first order effects look similar from the outside. Inflation adjusted income - purchasing power - is in the ballpark of 20% since 65.