4 ms·

The winning formula that seems to work without fail is more individual freedom/capitalism. (Not corporatism or crony capitalism or statism of course)

MisterBastahrd 3y ago
There's no such thing as "crony" capitalism. It's just capitalism without hiding the nasty bits.
gibsonf1 3y ago
The freest countries are the most prosperous - this is the evidence: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-co... Note that Hong Kong used to be at the top of this list prior to 1997 when China started taking away their freedom.
- nathan_compton 3y ago
  Note that this index is freest but not the most capitalist, which you seem to be conflating.
  - gibsonf1 3y ago
    I use the definition: "Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned." So no conflation.
    - nathan_compton 3y ago
      Weird definition of capitalism. Tons of systems respect property rights and individual freedoms. And, in fact, none of these states operate under the condition where all property is privately owned. Where they fall on those measures doesn't correlate with the weal of the people either, at least not the way you are implying.
      - gibsonf1 3y ago
        Which tons of systems? The US currently does not qualify as capitalist by that definition, we currently have a statist system with an unelected 4th branch of government, etc. Ref to definition: http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capitalism.html http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capitalism.html
        rs999gti 3y ago
        > unelected 4th branch of government The legislature is worthless and is more concerned with getting re-elected and getting rich in office, than doing actual legislation. The supreme court legislating from the bench is result of a lame duck congress and senate.
- gizajob 3y ago
  Singapore is pretty rich while not being particularly high on that list...
  - gfdsgfsdgfs 3y ago
    Singapore is highly capitalist.
- aylmao 3y ago
  Is this causation or correlation? Those "free countries" seem to correlate pretty closely with colonial powers. Scarcity necessitates tighter control. "Freedom" is easier to guarantee in prosperity. Also, at a global scale, if you're a rich country, it sounds like you'd want to spread a system that benefits those who have capital.
nathan_compton 3y ago
Capitalism inevitably devolves into crony capitalism/corporatism. Indeed, what is happening in the UK is literally after decades of of increasing liberalization! So "works without fail" seems to be an exaggeration at least.
- gibsonf1 3y ago
  To the extent that the government regulates/controls commerce, you will have corruption and cronyism. Restore freedom and remove the government from commerce, and cronyism goes away. I'm guessing the UK government is HIGHLY involved in all aspects of commerce.
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    Remove governance and corporations will flood in to fill the void. Personally I'd rather have a master I can vote out rather than a bunch of corporations dictating how I live.
- gfdsgfsdgfs 3y ago
  Communism and socialism don't lead to cronyism and corruption?
insanejudge 3y ago
The winning formula that seems to work without fail for personal productivity is crystal meth (not overdose or paranoia/psychosis or permanent heart and brain damage of course). It's popular these days to dismiss negative consequences for all sorts of things as fake, but side effects need to be confronted and actually dealt with, not just waved off. Would you let the 'communism has never been tried actually' people off the hook?

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

There's no such thing as "crony" capitalism. It's just capitalism without hiding the nasty bits.

gibsonf1 3y ago

The freest countries are the most prosperous - this is the evidence: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-co... Note that Hong Kong used to be at the top of this list prior to 1997 when China started taking away their freedom.

nathan_compton 3y ago
Note that this index is freest but not the most capitalist, which you seem to be conflating.
- gibsonf1 3y ago
  I use the definition: "Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned." So no conflation.
  - nathan_compton 3y ago
    Weird definition of capitalism. Tons of systems respect property rights and individual freedoms. And, in fact, none of these states operate under the condition where all property is privately owned. Where they fall on those measures doesn't correlate with the weal of the people either, at least not the way you are implying.
    - gibsonf1 3y ago
      Which tons of systems? The US currently does not qualify as capitalist by that definition, we currently have a statist system with an unelected 4th branch of government, etc. Ref to definition: http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capitalism.html http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capitalism.html
      - rs999gti 3y ago
        > unelected 4th branch of government The legislature is worthless and is more concerned with getting re-elected and getting rich in office, than doing actual legislation. The supreme court legislating from the bench is result of a lame duck congress and senate.
gizajob 3y ago
Singapore is pretty rich while not being particularly high on that list...
- gfdsgfsdgfs 3y ago
  Singapore is highly capitalist.
aylmao 3y ago
Is this causation or correlation? Those "free countries" seem to correlate pretty closely with colonial powers. Scarcity necessitates tighter control. "Freedom" is easier to guarantee in prosperity. Also, at a global scale, if you're a rich country, it sounds like you'd want to spread a system that benefits those who have capital.

nathan_compton 3y ago

Capitalism inevitably devolves into crony capitalism/corporatism. Indeed, what is happening in the UK is literally after decades of of increasing liberalization! So "works without fail" seems to be an exaggeration at least.

gibsonf1 3y ago
To the extent that the government regulates/controls commerce, you will have corruption and cronyism. Restore freedom and remove the government from commerce, and cronyism goes away. I'm guessing the UK government is HIGHLY involved in all aspects of commerce.
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  Remove governance and corporations will flood in to fill the void. Personally I'd rather have a master I can vote out rather than a bunch of corporations dictating how I live.
gfdsgfsdgfs 3y ago
Communism and socialism don't lead to cronyism and corruption?

insanejudge 3y ago

The winning formula that seems to work without fail for personal productivity is crystal meth (not overdose or paranoia/psychosis or permanent heart and brain damage of course). It's popular these days to dismiss negative consequences for all sorts of things as fake, but side effects need to be confronted and actually dealt with, not just waved off. Would you let the 'communism has never been tried actually' people off the hook?