10 ms·

Why does everything have to be re-framed to everyone reacting to or being inspired by Apple? Was everyone really blind to the idea that screen technology was im

Why does everything have to be re-framed to everyone reacting to or being inspired by Apple? Was everyone really blind to the idea that screen technology was improving? It seriously destroys the credibility of a piece when a technology like this has to be framed as a "response" or "inspired by" Apple. Microsoft, and every other competitor, have been talking about resolution independence and high density displays for a long time, the technology and manufacturing is just finally making it widely accessible. The notion that they suddenly decided to build all of this technology and infrastructure to respond to the iPad 3rd gen is simply incredible.

rbanffy 15y ago
Well... Considering the timing of the blog post, it certainly looks like a response to Apple's launch, regardless of Microsoft's long time efforts in resolution independence (which date back to, at least, the Windows 3 era). Still, Microsoft has consistently reacted to competitors in this very same way - when a competitor creates the perception their product is substantially more advanced than Microsoft's offering, they release something that tries to counter the perception. Sometimes it's a blog post, sometimes it's a press release and, sometimes, it's a full-blown product mock up demo (such as the PDC 2003 version of Vista).
- huggyface 15y ago
  It is entirely possible that the blog post itself was appropriate given the sudden media focus on the topic, however I'm speaking more to - "as system vendors are finally starting to increase pixel densities (no doubt inspired by the launch of a rather successful new tablet)" Pixel densities have been edging ever upwards across all sectors for years. The HTC Diamond (286 PPI way back in 2008), Galaxy Note (284 PPI), etc -- packing more information in a smaller display is of obvious value. My laptop from 2008 has 192 PPI. Or they're just suddenly enlightened because Apple released a new product.
  - mc32 15y ago
    I think the perception is that Apple is driving this innovation, rather than taking advantage of the technology trends everyone else is also aware of. It seems what happens is while every systems vendor is aware of new technology developments and all are, to one extent or another, preparing ways to take advantage of new technology availability, the perception is that Apple know what technology to hop on and take to market successfully --the other vendors appear to always be caught flat footed. The others also have products (in the lab, at least) and are not "behind" technologically, but are behind applying the technology successfully in their product portfolio.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    > Or they're just suddenly enlightened because Apple released a new product. Or they suddenly realized this feature is more important than, say, the Explorer ribbon.
- dpark 15y ago
  > Considering the timing of the blog post, it certainly looks like a response to Apple's launch Microsoft announced this at the Build conference last September. They even announced the specific 100%, 140%, and 180% sizes that they wanted app developers to provide. I think it was in the "8 traits of great Metro style apps" session. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/BUILD2011/BPS-1004 http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/BUILD2011/BPS-1004
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    The post (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/21/scaling-to-different-screens.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/21/scaling-to-dif...), however, was published yesterday. They've been doing resolution-independent stuff since, at least, the 3.1 days.
    - dpark 15y ago
      The blog post could be considered a response to Apple. The design and engineering work it outlines certainly isn't.
Bud 15y ago
"Everything", of course, does not have to be re-framed to everyone reacting to Apple. And nobody suggested that things have to be framed this way. However, when Apple is the one pushing the particular technological advance in question (which it very often is lately), then it certainly is appropriate to acknowledge fact and reality. And in this case, it's Apple pushing out the tablet screen with over 3 million pixels. Not anyone else. You're right; Microsoft has been "talking about" higher-res screens for a while. Talking. While Apple has been getting a product out the door. Sounds to me like you have some animus against Apple.
- tjoff 15y ago
  I'd say that it is the display manufacturers that are the ones pushing the particular technological advance in question.
  - pohl 15y ago
    Would they still have without a customer paying for guaranteed quantities?
    - tjoff 15y ago
      Putting it that way, would a customer guarantee quantities of something that they didn't know was possible or before knowing what trade offs had to be made? (cost, power consumption, pixel-defects, size etc. etc.)
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  Well Apple might be "pushing it out" but it's Samsung who's building it. Most of Samsung's own tablets and phones (and basically everyone elses) aren't fixed to set resolutions like iOS products so there's no real need for their products to jump by powers of two.
- huggyface 15y ago
  However, when Apple is the one pushing the particular technological advance in question (which it very often is lately), then it certainly is appropriate to acknowledge fact and reality. Which technology advances has Apple pushed forward? Sounds to me like you have some animus against Apple. I have an issue with people who have technological blinders on -- completely unaware of what has been happening in the industry -- who confuse Apple success with Apple innovation. Apple may have made big media waves with the "Retina" display, but they didn't invent high density displays (and they certainly didn't invent the programming model behind it. If anything they regressed 15 years into the past). They didn't invent tablets. They didn't invent the A5 beyond putting together two A9s and a PowerVR GPU. I could go on and on. What Apple is credited with seldom correlates with the reality.
pkamb 15y ago
> Was everyone really blind to the idea that screen technology was improving? Yes, they were. You could get far better screens 5 years ago on ThinkPad X60 and T60 laptops than you can today.
- falling 15y ago
  Higher resolution sure, definitely not better quality.
  - wtallis 15y ago
    Actually, there was a time when you could get an IPS panel in a laptop. Sure, the dead-pixel threshold for warranty replacement was higher back then, but it was possible to get a 15" 1600x1200 laptop display that has better viewing angles than any current laptop display. The only thing about laptop displays that's improved since then is LED backlighting.
    - falling 15y ago
      I was referring to Thinkpads specifically. While I loved mine, the display has never been their strong suit at all.
      - wtallis 15y ago
        Which ThinkPads? Even back when 1600x1200 IPS was an option, not all ThinkPads were using IPS panels.
- SpikeDad 15y ago
  I have an X60 and a T60. You are completely wrong. Sorry but there is nothing on the market like the iPad (3rd Gen) Retina screen.
  - pkamb 15y ago
    I'm talking laptops. I want an iPad 3 display for my Mac/ThinkPad.
SpikeDad 15y ago
So where was Microsoft and other tablet manufacturers during the iPad "revolution". Were they touting their upcoming high-resolution displays? Huge battery reserves? Easy app development platforms? Nope. ALL of the Windows and Android tablet development is 100% reactionary response to the success of the iPad. ALL OF IT. There was no real consumer tablet market before the iPad - period. And there continues to be NO innovative technology being introduced by any of the tablet makers and Microsoft. MS seems to think it can destroy the iPad by the simple introduction of Window 8 Table and Metro. I've used Metro in the Windows 8 Preview - it's garbage. It doesn't pass the Grandmother test and will flop with consumers. Sorry but pushing it to PCs and then glorying in the fact that consumers will swoon and insist their tablets have it is insane.
wmf 15y ago
Microsoft was promoting high DPI (along with a bunch of other cool but failed initiatives like microphone arrays) for Vista, but they couldn't convince anyone to actually manufacture the displays. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/greg_schechter/archive/2006/08/07/690704.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/greg_schechter/archive/2006/08/07/69...

rbanffy 15y ago

Well... Considering the timing of the blog post, it certainly looks like a response to Apple's launch, regardless of Microsoft's long time efforts in resolution independence (which date back to, at least, the Windows 3 era). Still, Microsoft has consistently reacted to competitors in this very same way - when a competitor creates the perception their product is substantially more advanced than Microsoft's offering, they release something that tries to counter the perception. Sometimes it's a blog post, sometimes it's a press release and, sometimes, it's a full-blown product mock up demo (such as the PDC 2003 version of Vista).

huggyface 15y ago
It is entirely possible that the blog post itself was appropriate given the sudden media focus on the topic, however I'm speaking more to - "as system vendors are finally starting to increase pixel densities (no doubt inspired by the launch of a rather successful new tablet)" Pixel densities have been edging ever upwards across all sectors for years. The HTC Diamond (286 PPI way back in 2008), Galaxy Note (284 PPI), etc -- packing more information in a smaller display is of obvious value. My laptop from 2008 has 192 PPI. Or they're just suddenly enlightened because Apple released a new product.
- mc32 15y ago
  I think the perception is that Apple is driving this innovation, rather than taking advantage of the technology trends everyone else is also aware of. It seems what happens is while every systems vendor is aware of new technology developments and all are, to one extent or another, preparing ways to take advantage of new technology availability, the perception is that Apple know what technology to hop on and take to market successfully --the other vendors appear to always be caught flat footed. The others also have products (in the lab, at least) and are not "behind" technologically, but are behind applying the technology successfully in their product portfolio.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  > Or they're just suddenly enlightened because Apple released a new product. Or they suddenly realized this feature is more important than, say, the Explorer ribbon.
dpark 15y ago
> Considering the timing of the blog post, it certainly looks like a response to Apple's launch Microsoft announced this at the Build conference last September. They even announced the specific 100%, 140%, and 180% sizes that they wanted app developers to provide. I think it was in the "8 traits of great Metro style apps" session. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/BUILD2011/BPS-1004 http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/BUILD2011/BPS-1004
- rbanffy 15y ago
  The post (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/21/scaling-to-different-screens.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/21/scaling-to-dif...), however, was published yesterday. They've been doing resolution-independent stuff since, at least, the 3.1 days.
  - dpark 15y ago
    The blog post could be considered a response to Apple. The design and engineering work it outlines certainly isn't.

Bud 15y ago

"Everything", of course, does not have to be re-framed to everyone reacting to Apple. And nobody suggested that things have to be framed this way. However, when Apple is the one pushing the particular technological advance in question (which it very often is lately), then it certainly is appropriate to acknowledge fact and reality. And in this case, it's Apple pushing out the tablet screen with over 3 million pixels. Not anyone else. You're right; Microsoft has been "talking about" higher-res screens for a while. Talking. While Apple has been getting a product out the door. Sounds to me like you have some animus against Apple.

tjoff 15y ago
I'd say that it is the display manufacturers that are the ones pushing the particular technological advance in question.
- pohl 15y ago
  Would they still have without a customer paying for guaranteed quantities?
  - tjoff 15y ago
    Putting it that way, would a customer guarantee quantities of something that they didn't know was possible or before knowing what trade offs had to be made? (cost, power consumption, pixel-defects, size etc. etc.)
ZeroGravitas 15y ago
Well Apple might be "pushing it out" but it's Samsung who's building it. Most of Samsung's own tablets and phones (and basically everyone elses) aren't fixed to set resolutions like iOS products so there's no real need for their products to jump by powers of two.
huggyface 15y ago
However, when Apple is the one pushing the particular technological advance in question (which it very often is lately), then it certainly is appropriate to acknowledge fact and reality. Which technology advances has Apple pushed forward? Sounds to me like you have some animus against Apple. I have an issue with people who have technological blinders on -- completely unaware of what has been happening in the industry -- who confuse Apple success with Apple innovation. Apple may have made big media waves with the "Retina" display, but they didn't invent high density displays (and they certainly didn't invent the programming model behind it. If anything they regressed 15 years into the past). They didn't invent tablets. They didn't invent the A5 beyond putting together two A9s and a PowerVR GPU. I could go on and on. What Apple is credited with seldom correlates with the reality.

pkamb 15y ago

> Was everyone really blind to the idea that screen technology was improving? Yes, they were. You could get far better screens 5 years ago on ThinkPad X60 and T60 laptops than you can today.

falling 15y ago
Higher resolution sure, definitely not better quality.
- wtallis 15y ago
  Actually, there was a time when you could get an IPS panel in a laptop. Sure, the dead-pixel threshold for warranty replacement was higher back then, but it was possible to get a 15" 1600x1200 laptop display that has better viewing angles than any current laptop display. The only thing about laptop displays that's improved since then is LED backlighting.
  - falling 15y ago
    I was referring to Thinkpads specifically. While I loved mine, the display has never been their strong suit at all.
    - wtallis 15y ago
      Which ThinkPads? Even back when 1600x1200 IPS was an option, not all ThinkPads were using IPS panels.
SpikeDad 15y ago
I have an X60 and a T60. You are completely wrong. Sorry but there is nothing on the market like the iPad (3rd Gen) Retina screen.
- pkamb 15y ago
  I'm talking laptops. I want an iPad 3 display for my Mac/ThinkPad.

SpikeDad 15y ago

So where was Microsoft and other tablet manufacturers during the iPad "revolution". Were they touting their upcoming high-resolution displays? Huge battery reserves? Easy app development platforms? Nope. ALL of the Windows and Android tablet development is 100% reactionary response to the success of the iPad. ALL OF IT. There was no real consumer tablet market before the iPad - period. And there continues to be NO innovative technology being introduced by any of the tablet makers and Microsoft. MS seems to think it can destroy the iPad by the simple introduction of Window 8 Table and Metro. I've used Metro in the Windows 8 Preview - it's garbage. It doesn't pass the Grandmother test and will flop with consumers. Sorry but pushing it to PCs and then glorying in the fact that consumers will swoon and insist their tablets have it is insane.

wmf 15y ago

Microsoft was promoting high DPI (along with a bunch of other cool but failed initiatives like microphone arrays) for Vista, but they couldn't convince anyone to actually manufacture the displays. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/greg_schechter/archive/2006/08/07/690704.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/greg_schechter/archive/2006/08/07/69...