10 ms·

And all of this together still doesn't solve the bigger problem with DIY hardware, which is the DIY itself. It it goes wrong, you cannot buy a new one or hire

And all of this together still doesn't solve the bigger problem with DIY hardware, which is the DIY itself. It it goes wrong, you cannot buy a new one or hire repairperson at a sane price. If it has a software side, it will probably need maintainence. If you want one, there's a large chance you might want another to expand your project. While yes, I am able to design a reliable hardware device, unless you have a large budget it will not be immune to direct baseball bat hits or spilling epoxy in the connector. So, in practice, if you ask me to build something for you, I'll try to find a way to do it with off the shelf parts as much as possible. Which sucks, because electronics projects are super fun, but the fun is dampened by the fact that in the end you have this completely unique irreplaceable thing that becomes a liability if you use it for anything important, which is generally tied to one application and becomes junk if you no longer need it, unlike the more general purpose off the shelf stuff. ESPHome and Amazon modules plus 3D printing gives a pretty good balance for a lot of things. Reconfigurable, machine-soldered reliability, a prefab software stack, but still enough flexibility to build novel things.

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
Just buy some spare tapeouts from digikey when building ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Doesn't solve the issue of nobody else knowing how to build it, and the ones that do often somehow making 60$ an hour, now you're stuck with this thing that could be your responsibility at any time.
bacon_waffle 3y ago
> It it goes wrong, you cannot buy a new one or hire repairperson at a sane price. If it has a software side, it will probably need maintainence. It's not clear to me that the alternative provides these either. Just thinking about some of the appliance-type things I've had issues with lately: my oven would've made more sense to replace than hire a repair person, and my ISP-provided router is running their latest firmware which is horribly out of date...
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Yeah, but your ISP router does work, and you could replace it if it didn't. Oven repair might be expensive but it's possible (Usually, some places you might have to wait a month, like I did when the heater went out), and not that expensive. With DIY stuff, sometimes you can't replace it because there's no equivalent, you've invented novel functionality, and bought other things that depend on it. Like, one time, when I had a very different mindset, I made a controllable light that used a non-DMX protocol, and took power over XT60. I don't know where the special USB adapter for it is. If "Number of direct dependents" and "Total of all dependents that are in some way customized" are more than just a few, then it's pretty nice to have standard stuff. Building things that are effectively clones of what you could just buy isn't that interesting to me, but making novel things comes with future unpredictability. I like to look for projects where there either just isn't any commercial thing at any reasonable price that would work, or the thing is non-critical, or there aren't many design decisions in other things based on the custom thing I'm doing.
  - bacon_waffle 3y ago
    I think that's shifting the goalposts a bit - one can buy weird proprietary stuff from a company or product line that disappears, or build stuff that uses standard interfaces.
dotancohen 3y ago
> but the fun is dampened by the fact that in the end you have this completely unique irreplaceable thing For many, having a completely unique irreplaceable thing _is_ the appeal.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  It's wonderful for a piece of art, not so much for a daily use functional object that could cause inconvenience if anything happens to it, and which has to be frequently moved and handled and such. I suppose people have widely varying tolerances and desires for unpredictability in daily life, some people really seem to like actually using unique tools, self hosting, customizing their computer with original scripts, etc.

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago

Just buy some spare tapeouts from digikey when building ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

eternityforest 3y ago
Doesn't solve the issue of nobody else knowing how to build it, and the ones that do often somehow making 60$ an hour, now you're stuck with this thing that could be your responsibility at any time.

bacon_waffle 3y ago

> It it goes wrong, you cannot buy a new one or hire repairperson at a sane price. If it has a software side, it will probably need maintainence. It's not clear to me that the alternative provides these either. Just thinking about some of the appliance-type things I've had issues with lately: my oven would've made more sense to replace than hire a repair person, and my ISP-provided router is running their latest firmware which is horribly out of date...

eternityforest 3y ago
Yeah, but your ISP router does work, and you could replace it if it didn't. Oven repair might be expensive but it's possible (Usually, some places you might have to wait a month, like I did when the heater went out), and not that expensive. With DIY stuff, sometimes you can't replace it because there's no equivalent, you've invented novel functionality, and bought other things that depend on it. Like, one time, when I had a very different mindset, I made a controllable light that used a non-DMX protocol, and took power over XT60. I don't know where the special USB adapter for it is. If "Number of direct dependents" and "Total of all dependents that are in some way customized" are more than just a few, then it's pretty nice to have standard stuff. Building things that are effectively clones of what you could just buy isn't that interesting to me, but making novel things comes with future unpredictability. I like to look for projects where there either just isn't any commercial thing at any reasonable price that would work, or the thing is non-critical, or there aren't many design decisions in other things based on the custom thing I'm doing.
- bacon_waffle 3y ago
  I think that's shifting the goalposts a bit - one can buy weird proprietary stuff from a company or product line that disappears, or build stuff that uses standard interfaces.

dotancohen 3y ago

> but the fun is dampened by the fact that in the end you have this completely unique irreplaceable thing For many, having a completely unique irreplaceable thing _is_ the appeal.

eternityforest 3y ago
It's wonderful for a piece of art, not so much for a daily use functional object that could cause inconvenience if anything happens to it, and which has to be frequently moved and handled and such. I suppose people have widely varying tolerances and desires for unpredictability in daily life, some people really seem to like actually using unique tools, self hosting, customizing their computer with original scripts, etc.