3 ms·

> Probably will save some RSI surgeries too, people can use healthy low key travel keyboards instead of high travel mechanical switches, while still getting the

> Probably will save some RSI surgeries too, people can use healthy low key travel keyboards instead of high travel mechanical switches, while still getting the clicking sound they want. Citation Needed. Mechanical keyboards are generally considered to be /better/ for your ergonomic health than low-travel keyboards. Part of this is that the primary form of repetitive injury is bottoming out the keys, which if you are on a higher travel keyboard with good tactile feedback you tend not to do, because you can actuate the keys without bottoming out.

blowski 3y ago
> Mechanical keyboards are generally considered to be /better/ for your ergonomic health than low-travel keyboards Citation needed there as well?
knoebber 3y ago
Anecdote: I had serious wrist/hand pain after using a mechanical keyboard for years. I changed to a low profile keyboard, and I don't have pain anymore. Who knows, maybe it was coincidence.
- mrbadguy 3y ago
  Funny, I always feel like I’m about to get injured using really low travel keyboards like the new apple magic keyboards. Hence I prefer mechanical ones. Guess it varies from person to person. Good to find what works for you.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    I have a theory that the RSI is mainly developed by the angle of the hands relative to the keyboard. Which is why the profile change is sufficient to mitigate the problem.
    - mrbadguy 3y ago
      Good point - using a wrist rest with a mechanical keyboard feels a lot more comfortable for me, since they tend to be a bit bulkier and more raised from the desk. Without one, I rely on the armrests to have the forearms higher than the keyboard so that my wrists aren't flexed.
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
  Same. That is why I'm excited to try out the glove80 I saw on HN the other day.
- tristor 3y ago
  Anecdote: I had the opposite, I switched to an ergo layout mechanical keyboard and a vertical mouse and was able to avoid near-certain surgery. The difference tends to be whether you're a "hard typer" or not. Folks who are hard typers (I am one), do much better with mechanical keyboards because it subtlety teaches you not to bottom out due to tactile feedback, while low-travel keyboards you /always/ bottom out while using. Folks who are not hard typers don't bottom out hard enough for it to injure them, and because they type more softly experience more strain due to the higher actuation weights of mechanical key switches. RSI is fun like that, there's no one true answer. You have to find what works for you. It's not a mistake though that one of the first and most respected ergonomic keyboards has always been mechanical, though [1]. That said, /most/ RSI issues actually start with how you sit while typing. If you get a proper chair and desk and adjust your typing stance (yes, this is a thing), you can reduce wrist pain from RSI even without changing anything about your keyboard. Also, using touchscreens and using mice are way worse than the keyboard for you anyway. The reason I responded the way I did to the parent, is that people who are hard typers are basically guaranteed to end up with RSI at some point in their life simply due to the strain of being a hard typer. As near as I can gather at this point, there's nothing you can do to train yourself to not be a hard typer. I'll be this way my entire life, but I can get tools that reduce its negative impacts. [1]: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/
- reportgunner 3y ago
  Mechanical keyboard definitely stopped my RSI and I haven't had any pain since (5+ years). I don't use clicky switches though, I don't think they are good.
rjh29 3y ago
It seems individual. For me mechanical keyboards are way too deep and require too much effort to press. It is possible to lightly touch them but this requires more mental effort imo than just using a chiclet keyboard. It feels like people use them for the satisfying audio and tactile feedback rather than any genuine improvement in typing speed.
- the_lucifer 3y ago
  > It is possible to lightly touch them but this requires more mental effort imo than just using a chiclet keyboard. This is easily remedied by using a very lightweight switch. Many different mechanical switches are available from well under 45gf to actuation force. (Thinkpad and macbook laptop/desktop keyboard range from 60 to 65gf of actuation[1]) You can see a small set of available switches and their force actuation curves here: switches.mx. You should possibly look into getting a switch tester with many types of switches to get the exact feedback force you prefer. There’s a ton more websites (theremingoat.com) and public github databases for this data. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer
  - rjh29 3y ago
    Thanks, but I'm happy with my thinkpad keyboard!

blowski 3y ago

> Mechanical keyboards are generally considered to be /better/ for your ergonomic health than low-travel keyboards Citation needed there as well?

knoebber 3y ago

Anecdote: I had serious wrist/hand pain after using a mechanical keyboard for years. I changed to a low profile keyboard, and I don't have pain anymore. Who knows, maybe it was coincidence.

mrbadguy 3y ago
Funny, I always feel like I’m about to get injured using really low travel keyboards like the new apple magic keyboards. Hence I prefer mechanical ones. Guess it varies from person to person. Good to find what works for you.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  I have a theory that the RSI is mainly developed by the angle of the hands relative to the keyboard. Which is why the profile change is sufficient to mitigate the problem.
  - mrbadguy 3y ago
    Good point - using a wrist rest with a mechanical keyboard feels a lot more comfortable for me, since they tend to be a bit bulkier and more raised from the desk. Without one, I rely on the armrests to have the forearms higher than the keyboard so that my wrists aren't flexed.
ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
Same. That is why I'm excited to try out the glove80 I saw on HN the other day.
tristor 3y ago
Anecdote: I had the opposite, I switched to an ergo layout mechanical keyboard and a vertical mouse and was able to avoid near-certain surgery. The difference tends to be whether you're a "hard typer" or not. Folks who are hard typers (I am one), do much better with mechanical keyboards because it subtlety teaches you not to bottom out due to tactile feedback, while low-travel keyboards you /always/ bottom out while using. Folks who are not hard typers don't bottom out hard enough for it to injure them, and because they type more softly experience more strain due to the higher actuation weights of mechanical key switches. RSI is fun like that, there's no one true answer. You have to find what works for you. It's not a mistake though that one of the first and most respected ergonomic keyboards has always been mechanical, though [1]. That said, /most/ RSI issues actually start with how you sit while typing. If you get a proper chair and desk and adjust your typing stance (yes, this is a thing), you can reduce wrist pain from RSI even without changing anything about your keyboard. Also, using touchscreens and using mice are way worse than the keyboard for you anyway. The reason I responded the way I did to the parent, is that people who are hard typers are basically guaranteed to end up with RSI at some point in their life simply due to the strain of being a hard typer. As near as I can gather at this point, there's nothing you can do to train yourself to not be a hard typer. I'll be this way my entire life, but I can get tools that reduce its negative impacts. [1]: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/
reportgunner 3y ago
Mechanical keyboard definitely stopped my RSI and I haven't had any pain since (5+ years). I don't use clicky switches though, I don't think they are good.

rjh29 3y ago

It seems individual. For me mechanical keyboards are way too deep and require too much effort to press. It is possible to lightly touch them but this requires more mental effort imo than just using a chiclet keyboard. It feels like people use them for the satisfying audio and tactile feedback rather than any genuine improvement in typing speed.

the_lucifer 3y ago
> It is possible to lightly touch them but this requires more mental effort imo than just using a chiclet keyboard. This is easily remedied by using a very lightweight switch. Many different mechanical switches are available from well under 45gf to actuation force. (Thinkpad and macbook laptop/desktop keyboard range from 60 to 65gf of actuation[1]) You can see a small set of available switches and their force actuation curves here: switches.mx. You should possibly look into getting a switch tester with many types of switches to get the exact feedback force you prefer. There’s a ton more websites (theremingoat.com) and public github databases for this data. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer
- rjh29 3y ago
  Thanks, but I'm happy with my thinkpad keyboard!