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Meanwhile in Greece. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/torrential-rain-follows-summer-wildfires-greece-one-dead-2023-09-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/eu

by petre 3y ago

Meanwhile in Greece. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/torrential-rain-follows-summer-wildfires-greece-one-dead-2023-09-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/torrential-rain-follows... I couldn't care less about BMW wining. They should start making tanks and APCs to sell to Ukraine and Eastern flank states if they're uncapable of building zero emission vehicles for civilian use. 40% exhibitors at the Munich motor show were Chinese companies, possibly showing off all electric models with chair heating that doesn't require a subscription.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Meanwhile in Greece. Do you think we won't have extreme weather phenomenons anymore if BMW stopped selling ICE cars? Building an EV generates 1,7x as much CO2 as building an ICE car. And if we were to replace all ICE cars o the road with EVs, we would need the resources of 1,5x planet earths. And even if we had enough resources on this single planet, replacing all ICEs with EVs would complexly destroy the environment anyway in the process due to mining and CO2. This isn't a BMW vs Tesla problem anymore, it's an Earth problem. If you were to shut down BMW tomorrow, the CO2 needle will not move. Un-doing all the environmental damage requires more than switching from ICEs to EVs, it requires a complete overhaul of our consumerist societies, and a backtrack on our unsustainable standards of living.
- petre 3y ago
  No, but it's very hypocritical. They should at least have the decency to shut up. But BMW cars and decency is a contradiction in terms. What's even worse is that almost every European automaker, including Renault is now copying their butt ugly X class hatchbacks on steroids. Don't care if they build EVs or hydrogen burning ICE cars as long as I don't have to inhale smoke while tailing another vehicle or just walking or cycling along a busy road. If they converted current vehicles to burn H2 it would be even better.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >No, but it's very hypocritical. They should at least have the decency to shut up. That's not hypocritical, they're just saying it as it is. A failure of the european auto sector will mean waves of unemployment and a recession. It would be an economic disaster of biblic proportions of the Eurozone, regardless of the state of the environment. And voters and politicians first and foremost care abut having pensions, jobs to buy food and a roof over their head and will vote for that before the environment. It's a tragedy of the commons. The big German automakers screwed the pooch on electrification, falling behind Tesla and China, but since they're too big to fail for the EU economy, are throwing the weight around to have things their way and they'll most likely get it. >Don't care if they build EVs or hydrogen burning ICE cars as long as I don't have to inhale smoke while tailing another car or just walking along a busy road. Ok, but what does the state of cars in your city have to do with Greece's extreme weather phenomenons? If you had EVs everywhere now in your neighbourhood, those phenomenons would still happen as pollution still continues. No matter what bs Elon said, switching to EVs, does not magically fix the planet. Manufacturing EVs is more environmentally damaging than ICEs. Most of the earth's environmental damage doesn't come form Avergae Joe driving to work in his BMW. >If they converted current vehicles to burn H2 it would be equally awesome. Are we just making up fantasy situations now?
    - petre 3y ago
      There's a war nearby, change some production lines and build APCs instead of butt ugly muscle cars that look like an APC with windows. Company + jobs + pensions saved. Crisis averted. Most of them are going to be destroyed anyway or sit around for a few decades gaining dust and rust save for an annual exercise or two after this is over.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Wow, that's genius. How come they haven't thought of that? Have you tried applying for CEO at BMW? I'm not sure that's how defense procurement and economics of the defense sector work in peace time(Germany is not at war), but it seems like you have it all figured out.
Gibbon1 3y ago
I've off and on wondered how useful an electric tank might be. Bonus power for a laser weapons system.

by petre 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Meanwhile in Greece. Do you think we won't have extreme weather phenomenons anymore if BMW stopped selling ICE cars? Building an EV generates 1,7x as much CO2 as building an ICE car. And if we were to replace all ICE cars o the road with EVs, we would need the resources of 1,5x planet earths. And even if we had enough resources on this single planet, replacing all ICEs with EVs would complexly destroy the environment anyway in the process due to mining and CO2. This isn't a BMW vs Tesla problem anymore, it's an Earth problem. If you were to shut down BMW tomorrow, the CO2 needle will not move. Un-doing all the environmental damage requires more than switching from ICEs to EVs, it requires a complete overhaul of our consumerist societies, and a backtrack on our unsustainable standards of living.

petre 3y ago
No, but it's very hypocritical. They should at least have the decency to shut up. But BMW cars and decency is a contradiction in terms. What's even worse is that almost every European automaker, including Renault is now copying their butt ugly X class hatchbacks on steroids. Don't care if they build EVs or hydrogen burning ICE cars as long as I don't have to inhale smoke while tailing another vehicle or just walking or cycling along a busy road. If they converted current vehicles to burn H2 it would be even better.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >No, but it's very hypocritical. They should at least have the decency to shut up. That's not hypocritical, they're just saying it as it is. A failure of the european auto sector will mean waves of unemployment and a recession. It would be an economic disaster of biblic proportions of the Eurozone, regardless of the state of the environment. And voters and politicians first and foremost care abut having pensions, jobs to buy food and a roof over their head and will vote for that before the environment. It's a tragedy of the commons. The big German automakers screwed the pooch on electrification, falling behind Tesla and China, but since they're too big to fail for the EU economy, are throwing the weight around to have things their way and they'll most likely get it. >Don't care if they build EVs or hydrogen burning ICE cars as long as I don't have to inhale smoke while tailing another car or just walking along a busy road. Ok, but what does the state of cars in your city have to do with Greece's extreme weather phenomenons? If you had EVs everywhere now in your neighbourhood, those phenomenons would still happen as pollution still continues. No matter what bs Elon said, switching to EVs, does not magically fix the planet. Manufacturing EVs is more environmentally damaging than ICEs. Most of the earth's environmental damage doesn't come form Avergae Joe driving to work in his BMW. >If they converted current vehicles to burn H2 it would be equally awesome. Are we just making up fantasy situations now?
  - petre 3y ago
    There's a war nearby, change some production lines and build APCs instead of butt ugly muscle cars that look like an APC with windows. Company + jobs + pensions saved. Crisis averted. Most of them are going to be destroyed anyway or sit around for a few decades gaining dust and rust save for an annual exercise or two after this is over.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Wow, that's genius. How come they haven't thought of that? Have you tried applying for CEO at BMW? I'm not sure that's how defense procurement and economics of the defense sector work in peace time(Germany is not at war), but it seems like you have it all figured out.

Gibbon1 3y ago

I've off and on wondered how useful an electric tank might be. Bonus power for a laser weapons system.