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Steam works very well on macOS/ARM64 (M1 or later). I didn't even know it used Rosetta until I checked out due to this article, this specific sentence: > The b

by Fnoord 3y ago

Steam works very well on macOS/ARM64 (M1 or later). I didn't even know it used Rosetta until I checked out due to this article, this specific sentence: > The bummer is that the Steam portal that runs on Linux is purely coded for x86/amd64 based system, that is why the Steam Deck is based on AMD. Bummer to only see Nvidia GPUs in this article btw. They're only better bang for buck for AI/ML (obviously, thanks to CUDA, and therefore it makes sense Ampere focuses on these) and for 4k. Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p.

smoldesu 3y ago
Nvidia hardware "just works" for a lot of ARM-based systems. ARM has been a big priority for Nvidia since the start, and their Linux drivers are plug-and-play on multiple arches and OSes. Prior to that, their hardware was in PDAs and laptops from pre-2010 using Nvidia-designed ARM SOCs. What else would you really put in one of these systems? Intel's cards are very fresh and probably won't focus on ARM for quite some time. AMD's hardware and user sentiment is great, but their drivers are flaky enough already on x86. > Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p. So was the Nintendo Switch, and it sold like gangbusters.
- geerlingguy 3y ago
  Yeah, sadly AMD seems to not be making much investment into the Arm ecosystem, whereas Nvidia's proprietary drivers have been built for and tested on multiple Arm systems (likely due to Nvidia building their own Arm silicon for years now). There aren't many changes required to get some amount of AMD GPU support going in Linux on modern Arm systems, but I'd still consider support 'experimental' there.
  - Fnoord 3y ago
    I was about to comment this fellow Jeff Geerling ran these PCIe GPUs on RPis but then I figured you're that fellow. I think there's also some ARM Mac machines running on AMD GPUs. Though default models use Apple's stuff. Btw, very interesting comments my comment sparked, thanks!
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > I think there's also some ARM Mac machines running on AMD GPUs. I don't believe any non-Intel Macs, including the new Mac Pro, support external GPUs: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/05/apple-silicon-mac-pro-does-not-support-pci-e-radeon-video-cards https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/05/apple-silicon-mac...
      - Fnoord 3y ago
        With macOS? Mac Pro I don't know, but its actually the Intel Macs which eGPU which are supported (with older macOS versions) and not Apple Silicon Macs [1] [1] https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/definitive-macos-thunderbolt-egfx-compatibility-registry-faq/ https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/definitive-macos-thunderbol...
- BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
  Nintendo has always been able to overcome computational power constraints by focusing on game design (both through leading the industry with their first-party work and by fostering a third-party ecosystem where those qualities are also valued). For Valve, the main asset is the PC gaming ecosystem; Being able to run popular titles from that arena is table stakes.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    The reason I made the comparison is because the parent said Nvidia GPUs are "only better bang for buck for AI/ML [...] and for 4k." The existence of a popular, cheap, high-performance 720p console SOC manufactured by Nvidia sorta proves otherwise. Nintendo's capability of turning shit (PowerPC) into relative gold (GC/Wii/WiiU) is impressive, but besides the point.
monlockandkey 3y ago
An ARM SOC on the steam deck would be really interesting in terms of battery life. But I guess game compatibility is the issue.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  Right; I expect any energy efficiency improvements would probably be swallowed up by having to run qemu binfmt or such because basically every single game you're going to play on it was targeted to x86
  - messe 3y ago
    You couldn’t just take any old ARM SoC off the shelf either, you’d need one with the ability to switch to a memory model as strong as x86’s (as M1 does), otherwise any emulated mulithreaded applications will misbehave.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Not really... the GPU would still be the main driver for the consumption
Jochim 3y ago
> and for 4k. AMD seems to be doing pretty well on raw performance this generation. The 7900XTX is about £200 and £500 cheaper than the 4080/4090 respectively and often comes out much closer to the 4090 in benchmarks. They still haven't cracked ray tracing though. Their implementation performs much worse than comparable Nvidia cards. Hopefully they'll figure it out before ray tracing actually takes off. I can see adoption being fairly slow though due to AMD's partnerships with console manufacturers and Nvidia's absurd pricing on the cards that can achieve decent ray tracing performance. It's disgusting how high GPU prices have risen though. My first build included 2 top of the line AMD Radeon R9 290X cards for less than the cost of a single 4070 Ti.
ShamelessC 3y ago
Steam on Mac OS takes a very long time to start up and doesn’t respect the windowing system. Are you just referring to games? Because I agree that Rosetta works well but those are all still Mac native (x86) games. There’s a lot you simply can’t play still unlike Linux with proton.
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
  The number of steam games available on mac peaked before Catalina killed 32-bit support: I can still play 64-bit games via something like proton, but I have to stream from my Linux box for a good portion of my library.

by Fnoord 3y ago

smoldesu 3y ago

Nvidia hardware "just works" for a lot of ARM-based systems. ARM has been a big priority for Nvidia since the start, and their Linux drivers are plug-and-play on multiple arches and OSes. Prior to that, their hardware was in PDAs and laptops from pre-2010 using Nvidia-designed ARM SOCs. What else would you really put in one of these systems? Intel's cards are very fresh and probably won't focus on ARM for quite some time. AMD's hardware and user sentiment is great, but their drivers are flaky enough already on x86. > Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p. So was the Nintendo Switch, and it sold like gangbusters.

geerlingguy 3y ago
Yeah, sadly AMD seems to not be making much investment into the Arm ecosystem, whereas Nvidia's proprietary drivers have been built for and tested on multiple Arm systems (likely due to Nvidia building their own Arm silicon for years now). There aren't many changes required to get some amount of AMD GPU support going in Linux on modern Arm systems, but I'd still consider support 'experimental' there.
- Fnoord 3y ago
  I was about to comment this fellow Jeff Geerling ran these PCIe GPUs on RPis but then I figured you're that fellow. I think there's also some ARM Mac machines running on AMD GPUs. Though default models use Apple's stuff. Btw, very interesting comments my comment sparked, thanks!
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > I think there's also some ARM Mac machines running on AMD GPUs. I don't believe any non-Intel Macs, including the new Mac Pro, support external GPUs: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/05/apple-silicon-mac-pro-does-not-support-pci-e-radeon-video-cards https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/05/apple-silicon-mac...
    - Fnoord 3y ago
      With macOS? Mac Pro I don't know, but its actually the Intel Macs which eGPU which are supported (with older macOS versions) and not Apple Silicon Macs [1] [1] https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/definitive-macos-thunderbolt-egfx-compatibility-registry-faq/ https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/definitive-macos-thunderbol...
BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
Nintendo has always been able to overcome computational power constraints by focusing on game design (both through leading the industry with their first-party work and by fostering a third-party ecosystem where those qualities are also valued). For Valve, the main asset is the PC gaming ecosystem; Being able to run popular titles from that arena is table stakes.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  The reason I made the comparison is because the parent said Nvidia GPUs are "only better bang for buck for AI/ML [...] and for 4k." The existence of a popular, cheap, high-performance 720p console SOC manufactured by Nvidia sorta proves otherwise. Nintendo's capability of turning shit (PowerPC) into relative gold (GC/Wii/WiiU) is impressive, but besides the point.

monlockandkey 3y ago

An ARM SOC on the steam deck would be really interesting in terms of battery life. But I guess game compatibility is the issue.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Right; I expect any energy efficiency improvements would probably be swallowed up by having to run qemu binfmt or such because basically every single game you're going to play on it was targeted to x86
- messe 3y ago
  You couldn’t just take any old ARM SoC off the shelf either, you’d need one with the ability to switch to a memory model as strong as x86’s (as M1 does), otherwise any emulated mulithreaded applications will misbehave.
ekianjo 3y ago
Not really... the GPU would still be the main driver for the consumption

Jochim 3y ago

> and for 4k. AMD seems to be doing pretty well on raw performance this generation. The 7900XTX is about £200 and £500 cheaper than the 4080/4090 respectively and often comes out much closer to the 4090 in benchmarks. They still haven't cracked ray tracing though. Their implementation performs much worse than comparable Nvidia cards. Hopefully they'll figure it out before ray tracing actually takes off. I can see adoption being fairly slow though due to AMD's partnerships with console manufacturers and Nvidia's absurd pricing on the cards that can achieve decent ray tracing performance. It's disgusting how high GPU prices have risen though. My first build included 2 top of the line AMD Radeon R9 290X cards for less than the cost of a single 4070 Ti.

ShamelessC 3y ago

Steam on Mac OS takes a very long time to start up and doesn’t respect the windowing system. Are you just referring to games? Because I agree that Rosetta works well but those are all still Mac native (x86) games. There’s a lot you simply can’t play still unlike Linux with proton.

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
The number of steam games available on mac peaked before Catalina killed 32-bit support: I can still play 64-bit games via something like proton, but I have to stream from my Linux box for a good portion of my library.