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Problem: People are leading unfulfilled lives and reporting they are depressed. My solution: Recenter your life around your family unit, do more physical activ

Problem: People are leading unfulfilled lives and reporting they are depressed. My solution: Recenter your life around your family unit, do more physical activity, get off social media. Build a life worth living. The solution we went with: Take some pills so you can manage the horror of your disconnected life devoid of meaning and purpose. Problem: Energetic young boys are having trouble sitting in school for hours on end. My solution: Focus more on hands on activities, bring back woodshop and metalshop, include more breaks for physical activity during the day. The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. It's easier (and more profitable) to feed people pills than to build a society that people are happy in so that's what we do, but hey the line went up!

EatingWithForks 3y ago
> The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. This is a bit inaccurate. ADHD is diagnosed more in boys than girls, but is way, way more debilitating than being energetic to the point where they may be incredibly dangerous in a woodshop or metalshop. It's not being able to keep track of each tool being used, or the order in which to use them. It's forgetting to turn machines off, and forgetting to unplug dangerous equipment. It's turning around to grab something and forgetting what you turned around for, and then forgetting the task you were doing before you realized you were missing a part. I would argue against treating ADHD like it's not a legitimate disability that requires accommodation. In the past, people with ADHD were just told they were stupid, lazy, or absentminded, when in reality they had a neurological disorder that had no diagnosis and no treatment at the time. That being said I overall agree with the fact that society doesn't allow for breathing room for people to be people and form human relationships that doesn't have a financial or economic angle. This is horrendous, and no amount of therapy or medication will resolve this fundamental, societal-level problem. But ADHD is real, acting like ADHD treatment is just societal feminization of men is a completely incorrect depiction of the disorder. We can simultaneously argue that the medical system is completely fucked and also acknowledge that sometimes you really do need a surgeon to repair broken legs!
- gardenhedge 3y ago
  Source on those actions being associated with ADHD? I'm not arguing they are not but they seem extreme.
  - EatingWithForks 3y ago
    I am describing the basic experience of having ADHD. ADHD is described as having difficulty with: * paying attention * listening closely * following instructions * organizing tasks in the workplace * keeping track of physical objects These are all things you need to do in a metal and woodshop! Have you never sat down and talked to someone with ADHD describe their basic experiences? I know people with ADHD who literally need all of their things hung up on display on a wall or else they lose them. There is an extremely popular guide for organizing with ADHD that recommends tearing cabinet doors off cabinets because it's impossible to remember where things are once put away. Here's a popular podcaster talking about having ADHD and needing accommodations, and goes deeply into his experiences with having ADHD and struggling to, for example, go to work on time because there are too many tasks to keep track of to go to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBxaBauF4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBxaBauF4M
    - pesus 3y ago
      Yep, it’s essentially an executive function disorder at its core. ADD/ADHD has always been a misnomer.
      - droopyEyelids 3y ago
        However, there is broad disagreement among professionals about the definition of Executive Function. Perhaps the most respected clinical researchers/professors on the subject Dr. Russel A Barkley, devotes a sizable chunk of his book to the many contradictory definitions that exist in scientific lit. https://www.guilford.com/books/Executive-Functions/Russell-Barkley/9781462545933 https://www.guilford.com/books/Executive-Functions/Russell-B... I bring this up to let space for discussion back into the topic. We shouldn't pretend like we have a full definition of ADHD or Executive Function Disorder. There are some aspects that receive wide agreement, a lot of pet theory unproven hypothesis being pushed around, and even more folklore disguised through scientific jargon.
footy 3y ago
> The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. love to be a woman with ADHD-PH and read this shit
- weregiraffe 3y ago
  Well, this is hackernews, one of the main nerd-to-incel-to-qanon pipelines. Misogynistic conspiracy theories fit right in.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    bollocks. ain't no one talking about looksmaxxing or other incel-type terms. Too much money and education here, as a group mind you, as well.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
> Build a life worth living. Easier said than done. You need money and a job fore that. A job which makes many people miserable.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  What was so much better about our parent's and grandparent's jobs? I don't think you need all that much money to build a life worth living, at least in my experience.
  - tremon 3y ago
    They didn't have to work 120+ hours/week between them. Single-income households leave a lot more time for managing the family unit.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      Grandpa lived through the Great Depression, and Great Grandpa would have had to work 7 days a week for 10 hours without any worker protections. Then legislation got passed to make work not awful, and two World Wars happened that killed huge swathes of the prime working demographic -- 18-40 year old men -- and opened up the market for those who were left. That world doesn't exist anymore, and labor legislation is being peeled back.
navjack27 3y ago
Stop stop stop right there with energetic young boys theory. https://youtu.be/gQ-rttdz_PI?si=E80n2xXeRrVf_qHy https://youtu.be/gQ-rttdz_PI?si=E80n2xXeRrVf_qHy watch this
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Problem: Energetic young boys are having trouble sitting in school for hours on end. That's not the problem > My solution: Focus more on hands on activities, bring back woodshop and metalshop, include more breaks for physical activity during the day. Schools today seem to have more hands on activities and breaks for physical activities then they did when I was a kid in the 1980s; at least my kids' school certainly does. While it helps some for ADHD (not its main purpose), it doesn't actually stop ADHD from being an issue for kids (not just boys) that have it. Individualized support helps more, and, where appropriate, medication helps even more. > The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. Getting high on stimulants doesn't make people more able to sit still. Its true that some stimulants have a paradoxical effect that is the exact opposite of getting high in certain doses for people with ADHD, and this is leveraged therapeutically (not just boys), but, well, that's not the same thing. ADHD isn’t the same as being energetic. Clinical depression isn't sadness.
- nh23423fefe 3y ago
  except taking adderall felt like getting high to me not its opposite.
  - pesus 3y ago
    Then you likely don’t have ADHD, or didn’t take them for longer than a week or so.
camdenlock 3y ago
[flagged]

EatingWithForks 3y ago

> The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. This is a bit inaccurate. ADHD is diagnosed more in boys than girls, but is way, way more debilitating than being energetic to the point where they may be incredibly dangerous in a woodshop or metalshop. It's not being able to keep track of each tool being used, or the order in which to use them. It's forgetting to turn machines off, and forgetting to unplug dangerous equipment. It's turning around to grab something and forgetting what you turned around for, and then forgetting the task you were doing before you realized you were missing a part. I would argue against treating ADHD like it's not a legitimate disability that requires accommodation. In the past, people with ADHD were just told they were stupid, lazy, or absentminded, when in reality they had a neurological disorder that had no diagnosis and no treatment at the time. That being said I overall agree with the fact that society doesn't allow for breathing room for people to be people and form human relationships that doesn't have a financial or economic angle. This is horrendous, and no amount of therapy or medication will resolve this fundamental, societal-level problem. But ADHD is real, acting like ADHD treatment is just societal feminization of men is a completely incorrect depiction of the disorder. We can simultaneously argue that the medical system is completely fucked and also acknowledge that sometimes you really do need a surgeon to repair broken legs!

gardenhedge 3y ago
Source on those actions being associated with ADHD? I'm not arguing they are not but they seem extreme.
- EatingWithForks 3y ago
  I am describing the basic experience of having ADHD. ADHD is described as having difficulty with: * paying attention * listening closely * following instructions * organizing tasks in the workplace * keeping track of physical objects These are all things you need to do in a metal and woodshop! Have you never sat down and talked to someone with ADHD describe their basic experiences? I know people with ADHD who literally need all of their things hung up on display on a wall or else they lose them. There is an extremely popular guide for organizing with ADHD that recommends tearing cabinet doors off cabinets because it's impossible to remember where things are once put away. Here's a popular podcaster talking about having ADHD and needing accommodations, and goes deeply into his experiences with having ADHD and struggling to, for example, go to work on time because there are too many tasks to keep track of to go to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBxaBauF4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBxaBauF4M
  - pesus 3y ago
    Yep, it’s essentially an executive function disorder at its core. ADD/ADHD has always been a misnomer.
    - droopyEyelids 3y ago
      However, there is broad disagreement among professionals about the definition of Executive Function. Perhaps the most respected clinical researchers/professors on the subject Dr. Russel A Barkley, devotes a sizable chunk of his book to the many contradictory definitions that exist in scientific lit. https://www.guilford.com/books/Executive-Functions/Russell-Barkley/9781462545933 https://www.guilford.com/books/Executive-Functions/Russell-B... I bring this up to let space for discussion back into the topic. We shouldn't pretend like we have a full definition of ADHD or Executive Function Disorder. There are some aspects that receive wide agreement, a lot of pet theory unproven hypothesis being pushed around, and even more folklore disguised through scientific jargon.

footy 3y ago

> The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. love to be a woman with ADHD-PH and read this shit

weregiraffe 3y ago
Well, this is hackernews, one of the main nerd-to-incel-to-qanon pipelines. Misogynistic conspiracy theories fit right in.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  bollocks. ain't no one talking about looksmaxxing or other incel-type terms. Too much money and education here, as a group mind you, as well.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

> Build a life worth living. Easier said than done. You need money and a job fore that. A job which makes many people miserable.

SirMaster 3y ago
What was so much better about our parent's and grandparent's jobs? I don't think you need all that much money to build a life worth living, at least in my experience.
- tremon 3y ago
  They didn't have to work 120+ hours/week between them. Single-income households leave a lot more time for managing the family unit.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    Grandpa lived through the Great Depression, and Great Grandpa would have had to work 7 days a week for 10 hours without any worker protections. Then legislation got passed to make work not awful, and two World Wars happened that killed huge swathes of the prime working demographic -- 18-40 year old men -- and opened up the market for those who were left. That world doesn't exist anymore, and labor legislation is being peeled back.

navjack27 3y ago

Stop stop stop right there with energetic young boys theory. https://youtu.be/gQ-rttdz_PI?si=E80n2xXeRrVf_qHy https://youtu.be/gQ-rttdz_PI?si=E80n2xXeRrVf_qHy watch this

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Problem: Energetic young boys are having trouble sitting in school for hours on end. That's not the problem > My solution: Focus more on hands on activities, bring back woodshop and metalshop, include more breaks for physical activity during the day. Schools today seem to have more hands on activities and breaks for physical activities then they did when I was a kid in the 1980s; at least my kids' school certainly does. While it helps some for ADHD (not its main purpose), it doesn't actually stop ADHD from being an issue for kids (not just boys) that have it. Individualized support helps more, and, where appropriate, medication helps even more. > The solution we went with: Get the boys so high on stimulants they can sit still like the girls. Getting high on stimulants doesn't make people more able to sit still. Its true that some stimulants have a paradoxical effect that is the exact opposite of getting high in certain doses for people with ADHD, and this is leveraged therapeutically (not just boys), but, well, that's not the same thing. ADHD isn’t the same as being energetic. Clinical depression isn't sadness.

nh23423fefe 3y ago
except taking adderall felt like getting high to me not its opposite.
- pesus 3y ago
  Then you likely don’t have ADHD, or didn’t take them for longer than a week or so.

camdenlock 3y ago

[flagged]