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This sums up the situation that government regulations don't work. These regulations put us on the path of trusting religious-like in government. We could be wo

This sums up the situation that government regulations don't work. These regulations put us on the path of trusting religious-like in government. We could be working toward push-button simple network segmentation with some kind of default filtering for install by the average home user.

Finnucane 3y ago
Which the manufacturers of IoT devices will give us willingly out of the goodness of their hearts?
- landemva 3y ago
  Yet government is made of people so it does not have God-like powers, even though it is often worshipped. I would prefer to plug in a box that does this segment/filter. I will pay if it can be rebuilt from available source code. Make it easy to install and setup. If nobody purchases then nobody cares and why would government get involved? Seems like FCC scope creep. Forcing every IoT vendor to do it overlooks the problem of each vendor having and maintaining the skillsets. How about something like UL to create a slim standard and test against that standard. The aforementioned box idea could apply to be tested against the standard. https://www.ul.com https://www.ul.com
  - andybak 3y ago
    > Yet government is made of people so it does not have God-like powers, even though it is often worshipped. A slightly bizarre aside.
autoexec 3y ago
> These regulations put us on the path of trusting religious-like in government. We don't need to have religious-like faith in government because we can vote for people who will do what we want them to and we can vote out the people who refuse to do their job. It doesn't happen without the people getting involved and holding their government accountable though. You don't have to pray when you can vote. Without regulation you could only ever have religious-like faith in private corporations because they have zero incentive to act benevolently and you have zero power to replace a CEO who is acting against the interests of the public. You have no vote, so prayer is all you have left.
- landemva 3y ago
  How well did that work for bank oversight in 2008, and again in 2023 with SVB? The accountability of "my one vote will remove government's failed regulators" fails on the scale of $billions.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    Your examples are situations were deregulation/lack of regulation caused problems. Without regulations, prayer didn't work out so well. We all know IoT security is a problem, but after decades of that problem existing prayer hasn't worked there either. No one person's vote can fix government but collectively we have the option to enact change. I'll take having the ability to make changes over being powerless to make changes every time.
  - rjbwork 3y ago
    >How well did that work for bank oversight in 2008, and again in 2023 with SVB Hilarious own goal on this one.
  - klausa 3y ago
    Is there an argument that the government failed in oversight with SVB? I think this is a textbook slam-dunk by the government? They stepped in when the situation was _bad_, but not _catastrophic_ yet (mmmmaybe arguable), took over, and no depositors got hurt. Is there an argument that this could've gone better, apart from "no banks ever fail"?
    - landemva 3y ago
      Fed had to set up a swap/lend facility that weekend. Sort of like they make it up as they go. The specific regulator is going to retire. "Abbasi and Mary Daly, president of the San Francisco Fed, came under scrutiny after a post-mortem report undertaken by the Federal Reserve found problems with how SVB was supervised." https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/key-san-francisco-fed-official-who-oversaw-supervision-of-svb-will-retire/ar-AA1fWSEW https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/key-san-francisco-fe... And through regulatory capture the CEO of SVB was on the board of directors of the regulator! https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ceo-failed-silicon-valley-bank-no-longer-director-sf-fed-2023-03-10/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ceo-failed-silicon-valley...
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> regulations put us on the path of trusting religious-like in government We trust in government to set rules and punish rulebreakers. When that is not true, do we enact punishment ourselves? Results would be not pretty.
- landemva 3y ago
  If your ISP determines there is a botnet from your home IP and you refuse their request to fix it, then it seems appropriate for your ISP to take action or "enact punishment".
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    Okay, let look at the reverse situation If my ISP charges me for 100 mbps but provides 10, can I enact punishment without government interfering and protecting ISP from my punishment?
    - landemva 3y ago
      Using rule of law and courts, it depends on your contract. Many residential providers have service as a best effort. Guaranteed service with penalties are typically possible, if you are willing to pay significantly more.
      - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        This is textbook definition of hypocrisy. ISP does whatever they want without any qualifiers about contract and without any need to go to court.n
paiute 3y ago
I’ve worked in security before and i don’t really think the government should be involved that much. There are so many different situations to consider. What i would support is the fcc coming up with a list of common patterns and then forcing devices to state which, if any, pattern they follow. I have a weather station for example which doesn’t really need any security on the device end.
- necovek 3y ago
  Does your weather station connect to the internet? (the discussion is about IoT devices) If so, plenty of IoT devices have been used in botnets, as point of entry into local networks (hello printer, home assistant, file share...), or simply killed off with a DoS attack.

Finnucane 3y ago

Which the manufacturers of IoT devices will give us willingly out of the goodness of their hearts?

landemva 3y ago
Yet government is made of people so it does not have God-like powers, even though it is often worshipped. I would prefer to plug in a box that does this segment/filter. I will pay if it can be rebuilt from available source code. Make it easy to install and setup. If nobody purchases then nobody cares and why would government get involved? Seems like FCC scope creep. Forcing every IoT vendor to do it overlooks the problem of each vendor having and maintaining the skillsets. How about something like UL to create a slim standard and test against that standard. The aforementioned box idea could apply to be tested against the standard. https://www.ul.com https://www.ul.com
- andybak 3y ago
  > Yet government is made of people so it does not have God-like powers, even though it is often worshipped. A slightly bizarre aside.

autoexec 3y ago

> These regulations put us on the path of trusting religious-like in government. We don't need to have religious-like faith in government because we can vote for people who will do what we want them to and we can vote out the people who refuse to do their job. It doesn't happen without the people getting involved and holding their government accountable though. You don't have to pray when you can vote. Without regulation you could only ever have religious-like faith in private corporations because they have zero incentive to act benevolently and you have zero power to replace a CEO who is acting against the interests of the public. You have no vote, so prayer is all you have left.

landemva 3y ago
How well did that work for bank oversight in 2008, and again in 2023 with SVB? The accountability of "my one vote will remove government's failed regulators" fails on the scale of $billions.
- autoexec 3y ago
  Your examples are situations were deregulation/lack of regulation caused problems. Without regulations, prayer didn't work out so well. We all know IoT security is a problem, but after decades of that problem existing prayer hasn't worked there either. No one person's vote can fix government but collectively we have the option to enact change. I'll take having the ability to make changes over being powerless to make changes every time.
- rjbwork 3y ago
  >How well did that work for bank oversight in 2008, and again in 2023 with SVB Hilarious own goal on this one.
- klausa 3y ago
  Is there an argument that the government failed in oversight with SVB? I think this is a textbook slam-dunk by the government? They stepped in when the situation was _bad_, but not _catastrophic_ yet (mmmmaybe arguable), took over, and no depositors got hurt. Is there an argument that this could've gone better, apart from "no banks ever fail"?
  - landemva 3y ago
    Fed had to set up a swap/lend facility that weekend. Sort of like they make it up as they go. The specific regulator is going to retire. "Abbasi and Mary Daly, president of the San Francisco Fed, came under scrutiny after a post-mortem report undertaken by the Federal Reserve found problems with how SVB was supervised." https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/key-san-francisco-fed-official-who-oversaw-supervision-of-svb-will-retire/ar-AA1fWSEW https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/key-san-francisco-fe... And through regulatory capture the CEO of SVB was on the board of directors of the regulator! https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ceo-failed-silicon-valley-bank-no-longer-director-sf-fed-2023-03-10/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ceo-failed-silicon-valley...

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> regulations put us on the path of trusting religious-like in government We trust in government to set rules and punish rulebreakers. When that is not true, do we enact punishment ourselves? Results would be not pretty.

landemva 3y ago
If your ISP determines there is a botnet from your home IP and you refuse their request to fix it, then it seems appropriate for your ISP to take action or "enact punishment".
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  Okay, let look at the reverse situation If my ISP charges me for 100 mbps but provides 10, can I enact punishment without government interfering and protecting ISP from my punishment?
  - landemva 3y ago
    Using rule of law and courts, it depends on your contract. Many residential providers have service as a best effort. Guaranteed service with penalties are typically possible, if you are willing to pay significantly more.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      This is textbook definition of hypocrisy. ISP does whatever they want without any qualifiers about contract and without any need to go to court.n

paiute 3y ago

I’ve worked in security before and i don’t really think the government should be involved that much. There are so many different situations to consider. What i would support is the fcc coming up with a list of common patterns and then forcing devices to state which, if any, pattern they follow. I have a weather station for example which doesn’t really need any security on the device end.

necovek 3y ago
Does your weather station connect to the internet? (the discussion is about IoT devices) If so, plenty of IoT devices have been used in botnets, as point of entry into local networks (hello printer, home assistant, file share...), or simply killed off with a DoS attack.