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I just don't see how 'general computing' can ever be taken away from those determined to have it. Forget the latest, fastest CPUs for a moment and focus on what

I just don't see how 'general computing' can ever be taken away from those determined to have it. Forget the latest, fastest CPUs for a moment and focus on what general computing really is. I can build a computer from scratch from existing knowledge I have stored in my head. Computing that I'm in control of really can't really be taken away from me on a basic level. I don't disagree though, the web itself is becoming a hellscape and I expect it to be completely and totally locked down within my lifetime. I don't think the web most people know is savable anymore.

horsawlarway 3y ago
It's not that you won't be able to have a general purpose computer, it's that nothing that touches valuable services will be accessible to it. You can run your toy rpi hobby server, but you won't be able to buy goods, check your bank statements, file your taxes, buy your insurance, pay your rent, check your email or message your mom. Doing any of those things will require getting permission from the gatekeepers of those services, and your device won't get it if you have root. In the BEST case: the government heavily regulates what those gatekeepers can do. In the worst... they "convenience fee" away absolutely all surplus productivity so a very small group of people holding digital keys gets to be stunningly rich.
- BizarreByte 3y ago
  > it's that nothing that touches valuable services will be accessible to it. > Doing any of those things will require getting permission from the gatekeepers of those services I don't see how we aren't already at this point. I can be locked out of my banking tomorrow for any reason by the bank or government, banking apps won't run on rooted phones or even many browsers, I can be banned from email providers and I can't reasonably host my own as big providers won't accept messages from my server, etc. That's not even touching on how companies like CloudFlare are effectively already the gatekeepers of traffic to any service you would want to use. From my perspective the future you're scared of is here already and only getting worse.
spiralpolitik 3y ago
Watch what happens when the bottom finally drops out of Intel and the cloud retreats behind their own custom ARM or RISC-V server optimized SoCs. Open hardware sources will dry-up. There are very few OSS hardware vendors that are in a position to pick up supporting the whole ecosystem enchilada. System76 is the only one that comes to mind. They seem to understand to some degree where the puck is heading. While 'general computing' can't be taken away, what an individual or small company can support won't be able to compete with the locked down systems, especially if the upstream efforts are spread across multiple open source fronts.
- snvzz 3y ago
  >While 'general computing' can't be taken away, what an individual or small company can support won't be able to compete with the locked down systems, especially if the upstream efforts are spread across multiple open source fronts. This is a very pessimistic view. IBM never designed the PC to be future proof. It just happened to pick up. RISC-V standardization extends to the boot process and the platform, facilitating a standard PC that's cleaner, simpler and better than the current incidental IBM PC derived platform, which has accumulated much baggage since 1981. The platform standard being open and simple minimizes the effort the software side (esp. the OS) needs to spend on supporting the hardware.
contravariant 3y ago
I mean even if you can build a computer from scratch a few self built transistors aren't going to weigh up against advanced microchips. Unless we have different ideas of what 'from scratch' means.
- BizarreByte 3y ago
  Our ideas of what it means are the same and I agree, but "general computing" doesn't mean the latest, most up to date hardware. The ability to freely compute on a basic level isn't under any threat. I guess I'm being kind of pedantic, but I think there's a meaningful difference between being able to freely compute and being able to freely interact with systems run by other parties which is what is actually threatened.
CatWChainsaw 3y ago
We're in a new Gilded Age, and it's going to have to get worse before it can get better.

horsawlarway 3y ago

It's not that you won't be able to have a general purpose computer, it's that nothing that touches valuable services will be accessible to it. You can run your toy rpi hobby server, but you won't be able to buy goods, check your bank statements, file your taxes, buy your insurance, pay your rent, check your email or message your mom. Doing any of those things will require getting permission from the gatekeepers of those services, and your device won't get it if you have root. In the BEST case: the government heavily regulates what those gatekeepers can do. In the worst... they "convenience fee" away absolutely all surplus productivity so a very small group of people holding digital keys gets to be stunningly rich.

BizarreByte 3y ago
> it's that nothing that touches valuable services will be accessible to it. > Doing any of those things will require getting permission from the gatekeepers of those services I don't see how we aren't already at this point. I can be locked out of my banking tomorrow for any reason by the bank or government, banking apps won't run on rooted phones or even many browsers, I can be banned from email providers and I can't reasonably host my own as big providers won't accept messages from my server, etc. That's not even touching on how companies like CloudFlare are effectively already the gatekeepers of traffic to any service you would want to use. From my perspective the future you're scared of is here already and only getting worse.

spiralpolitik 3y ago

Watch what happens when the bottom finally drops out of Intel and the cloud retreats behind their own custom ARM or RISC-V server optimized SoCs. Open hardware sources will dry-up. There are very few OSS hardware vendors that are in a position to pick up supporting the whole ecosystem enchilada. System76 is the only one that comes to mind. They seem to understand to some degree where the puck is heading. While 'general computing' can't be taken away, what an individual or small company can support won't be able to compete with the locked down systems, especially if the upstream efforts are spread across multiple open source fronts.

snvzz 3y ago
>While 'general computing' can't be taken away, what an individual or small company can support won't be able to compete with the locked down systems, especially if the upstream efforts are spread across multiple open source fronts. This is a very pessimistic view. IBM never designed the PC to be future proof. It just happened to pick up. RISC-V standardization extends to the boot process and the platform, facilitating a standard PC that's cleaner, simpler and better than the current incidental IBM PC derived platform, which has accumulated much baggage since 1981. The platform standard being open and simple minimizes the effort the software side (esp. the OS) needs to spend on supporting the hardware.

contravariant 3y ago

I mean even if you can build a computer from scratch a few self built transistors aren't going to weigh up against advanced microchips. Unless we have different ideas of what 'from scratch' means.

BizarreByte 3y ago
Our ideas of what it means are the same and I agree, but "general computing" doesn't mean the latest, most up to date hardware. The ability to freely compute on a basic level isn't under any threat. I guess I'm being kind of pedantic, but I think there's a meaningful difference between being able to freely compute and being able to freely interact with systems run by other parties which is what is actually threatened.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago

We're in a new Gilded Age, and it's going to have to get worse before it can get better.