7 ms·

Steam-on-Ampere

79 points by marcodiego 3y ago

Arcuru 3y ago
Is Steam capable of delivering aarch64 native games? For instance, is it correct to assume that a game developer can upload both an x86 and aarch64 version?
- sitzkrieg 3y ago
  i mean really, the dev can stuff whatever they want in a steam depot and point at it as the thing to run, so yes
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Its already happening for a while. Some games have both binaries
pzmarzly 3y ago
Box86 instead of qemu-user-static? I'd love to see a benchmark comparing these two.
- als0 3y ago
  Same. It's a shame that Steam is purely coded for x86/amd64 and doesn't try to use either of these tools on ARM.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    I think that's a bit harsh of a criticism. Up until very recently gaming on ARM was a non-starter. Even today, majority of the Steam library probably cannot run on ARM even if they tried. We can't dig Valve here, especially given the impressive amount of work they've already plowed into gaming on Linux in general. To abuse a meme I find funny - "let [Valve] cook".
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
      Even if Steam could run on ARM my outsider’s understanding is that essentially nobody codes to the Apple GPU system. So the number of compatible games would be extremely limited.
      - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
        The Asahi Linux team recently completed an OpenGL 3.1-compliant driver for Apple's ARM-based Macs, and is now working on a Vulkan-compliant driver, so hopefully that will change in a year.
        mnd999 3y ago
        The only OpenGL 3.1 compliant driver iirc.
Fnoord 3y ago
Steam works very well on macOS/ARM64 (M1 or later). I didn't even know it used Rosetta until I checked out due to this article, this specific sentence: > The bummer is that the Steam portal that runs on Linux is purely coded for x86/amd64 based system, that is why the Steam Deck is based on AMD. Bummer to only see Nvidia GPUs in this article btw. They're only better bang for buck for AI/ML (obviously, thanks to CUDA, and therefore it makes sense Ampere focuses on these) and for 4k. Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Nvidia hardware "just works" for a lot of ARM-based systems. ARM has been a big priority for Nvidia since the start, and their Linux drivers are plug-and-play on multiple arches and OSes. Prior to that, their hardware was in PDAs and laptops from pre-2010 using Nvidia-designed ARM SOCs. What else would you really put in one of these systems? Intel's cards are very fresh and probably won't focus on ARM for quite some time. AMD's hardware and user sentiment is great, but their drivers are flaky enough already on x86. > Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p. So was the Nintendo Switch, and it sold like gangbusters.
  - geerlingguy 3y ago
    Yeah, sadly AMD seems to not be making much investment into the Arm ecosystem, whereas Nvidia's proprietary drivers have been built for and tested on multiple Arm systems (likely due to Nvidia building their own Arm silicon for years now). There aren't many changes required to get some amount of AMD GPU support going in Linux on modern Arm systems, but I'd still consider support 'experimental' there.
    - Fnoord 3y ago
      I was about to comment this fellow Jeff Geerling ran these PCIe GPUs on RPis but then I figured you're that fellow. I think there's also some ARM Mac machines running on AMD GPUs. Though default models use Apple's stuff. Btw, very interesting comments my comment sparked, thanks!
nodesocket 3y ago
I've been waiting for Steam to come out with a M1 (arm64) version as it's the last application I have installed that uses Rosetta. I haven't been holding my breath, since arm64 is not a priority for Valve. Hopefully this accelerates adoption of arm64 gaming.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  Even if the Steam launcher were aarch64-compatible right now, you still need to emulate for all the games, and I don't see those getting ported soon if ever
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    Not all, just the vast majority... but the same could be said on macOS for x86-64 Steam games anyways. Funnily enough, many games on Steam beat Steam to the punch already and launch as aarch64 even though the launcher client is emulated.
  - jakobson14 3y ago
    If steam were ported to ARM, or at least ARM-aware, it could bundle a solution like fex or qemu or box86 just like it bundles proton/wine.
tedunangst 3y ago
A lot of indie games also use open source game engines, which allow (relatively) easy DIY native ports.
jfim 3y ago
For those confused by the title, there's Ampere computing (which makes ARM processors) and Ampere the Nvidia GPU generation (eg. A100). This is about steam running on the former though x86 emulation, and also can use the latter GPU architecture.
Thaxll 3y ago
Yes please, encourage more game on steam to have their gameservers compiled for arm.
torginus 3y ago
I do have my doubts. Steam uses a Chrome(CEF I think)-based framework for most of its UI, and x86 Chrome runs like a dog's dinner on x86-to-ARM emulators (which is entirely unsurprising, considering it does a ton of JIT compilation)

79 points by marcodiego 3y ago

Is Steam capable of delivering aarch64 native games? For instance, is it correct to assume that a game developer can upload both an x86 and aarch64 version?

sitzkrieg 3y ago
i mean really, the dev can stuff whatever they want in a steam depot and point at it as the thing to run, so yes
ekianjo 3y ago
Its already happening for a while. Some games have both binaries

pzmarzly 3y ago

Box86 instead of qemu-user-static? I'd love to see a benchmark comparing these two.

als0 3y ago
Same. It's a shame that Steam is purely coded for x86/amd64 and doesn't try to use either of these tools on ARM.
- Alupis 3y ago
  I think that's a bit harsh of a criticism. Up until very recently gaming on ARM was a non-starter. Even today, majority of the Steam library probably cannot run on ARM even if they tried. We can't dig Valve here, especially given the impressive amount of work they've already plowed into gaming on Linux in general. To abuse a meme I find funny - "let [Valve] cook".
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
    Even if Steam could run on ARM my outsider’s understanding is that essentially nobody codes to the Apple GPU system. So the number of compatible games would be extremely limited.
    - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
      The Asahi Linux team recently completed an OpenGL 3.1-compliant driver for Apple's ARM-based Macs, and is now working on a Vulkan-compliant driver, so hopefully that will change in a year.
      - mnd999 3y ago
        The only OpenGL 3.1 compliant driver iirc.

Fnoord 3y ago

Steam works very well on macOS/ARM64 (M1 or later). I didn't even know it used Rosetta until I checked out due to this article, this specific sentence: > The bummer is that the Steam portal that runs on Linux is purely coded for x86/amd64 based system, that is why the Steam Deck is based on AMD. Bummer to only see Nvidia GPUs in this article btw. They're only better bang for buck for AI/ML (obviously, thanks to CUDA, and therefore it makes sense Ampere focuses on these) and for 4k. Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p.

smoldesu 3y ago
Nvidia hardware "just works" for a lot of ARM-based systems. ARM has been a big priority for Nvidia since the start, and their Linux drivers are plug-and-play on multiple arches and OSes. Prior to that, their hardware was in PDAs and laptops from pre-2010 using Nvidia-designed ARM SOCs. What else would you really put in one of these systems? Intel's cards are very fresh and probably won't focus on ARM for quite some time. AMD's hardware and user sentiment is great, but their drivers are flaky enough already on x86. > Steam Deck needs to do neither as its 720p. So was the Nintendo Switch, and it sold like gangbusters.
- geerlingguy 3y ago
  Yeah, sadly AMD seems to not be making much investment into the Arm ecosystem, whereas Nvidia's proprietary drivers have been built for and tested on multiple Arm systems (likely due to Nvidia building their own Arm silicon for years now). There aren't many changes required to get some amount of AMD GPU support going in Linux on modern Arm systems, but I'd still consider support 'experimental' there.
  - Fnoord 3y ago
    I was about to comment this fellow Jeff Geerling ran these PCIe GPUs on RPis but then I figured you're that fellow. I think there's also some ARM Mac machines running on AMD GPUs. Though default models use Apple's stuff. Btw, very interesting comments my comment sparked, thanks!

nodesocket 3y ago

I've been waiting for Steam to come out with a M1 (arm64) version as it's the last application I have installed that uses Rosetta. I haven't been holding my breath, since arm64 is not a priority for Valve. Hopefully this accelerates adoption of arm64 gaming.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Even if the Steam launcher were aarch64-compatible right now, you still need to emulate for all the games, and I don't see those getting ported soon if ever
- zamadatix 3y ago
  Not all, just the vast majority... but the same could be said on macOS for x86-64 Steam games anyways. Funnily enough, many games on Steam beat Steam to the punch already and launch as aarch64 even though the launcher client is emulated.
- jakobson14 3y ago
  If steam were ported to ARM, or at least ARM-aware, it could bundle a solution like fex or qemu or box86 just like it bundles proton/wine.

tedunangst 3y ago

A lot of indie games also use open source game engines, which allow (relatively) easy DIY native ports.

jfim 3y ago

For those confused by the title, there's Ampere computing (which makes ARM processors) and Ampere the Nvidia GPU generation (eg. A100). This is about steam running on the former though x86 emulation, and also can use the latter GPU architecture.

Thaxll 3y ago

Yes please, encourage more game on steam to have their gameservers compiled for arm.

torginus 3y ago

I do have my doubts. Steam uses a Chrome(CEF I think)-based framework for most of its UI, and x86 Chrome runs like a dog's dinner on x86-to-ARM emulators (which is entirely unsurprising, considering it does a ton of JIT compilation)