2 ms·

FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. I'm not arguing his innocence or guilt here, just examining the logic of his holin

FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. I'm not arguing his innocence or guilt here, just examining the logic of his holing up at the embassy as some kind of time served. If I commit a crime and go hiding in the woods for a few years before my trial, does that mean I should serve no prison time?

mschuster91 3y ago
> FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. Yeah, when facing extradition under charges that could get me holed up for life or, even worse, executed I'd go and hole myself up in an embassy just as well.
- vel0city 3y ago
  The person who actually did the hacking and leaking of classified documents were only charged with 35 years and was out in 7. The maximum penalty he faces is 170 years in prison, not execution and technically not a life sentence, and depending on the facts of the case it could be significantly less than that or even none at all. Saying he's facing execution is a lie. He holed himself up and has been sitting in extradition proceedings because of his own choices. In the timeframe of his fighting against ever seeing an actual courtroom for the espionage act indictment, his fellow alleged co-conspirator who probably did more of an actual crime already had a trial, served a prison sentence, and is now a free person again. Its quite possible if he didn't hole himself up for nearly a decade and continue fighting extradition he'd already be a free person.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > Saying he's facing execution is a lie. So you're trusting a country that still has the death penalty on the books, regularly uses it even on cases where the legality / quality of evidence is all but non-existent and that still has Guantanamo open to keep their word and only charge him for what they announced they'd want him extradited for? I mean, yes, the USA ain't Russia or China, but if I were facing potential 170 years in prison? Fuck no, no way I'd risk that.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      I'm trusting his indictment. The indictment he's facing has a maximum 170 years in prison, not execution. So yeah, I'd be extremely surprised if he were executed for a crime which doesn't care execution as a penalty. He's facing execution in the same way people getting a traffic citation are facing execution, in that he isn't facing execution at all. Lying about his case isn't doing anyone any favors. And if the options are hole up in an embassy where you're seemingly not entirely welcome for most of a decade and then sitting in a prison for years because you keep trying to prevent yourself from ever seeing an actual courtroom versus having a public trial where you could quite possibly be shown entirely innocent and be a free person, you'd take a self-imposed prison sentence every time?
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > I'm trusting his indictment. The indictment he's facing has a maximum 170 years in prison, not execution. What prevents the US government from filing another indictment? Usually, only the bilateral extradition agreements between nations have provisions against that (by stating that extradited persons can only be charged for the crimes listed in the warrant), but if that were violated, it would not be much more than a minor diplomatic event between the UK and US.
        vel0city 3y ago
        Well, I guess if we're going to just entertain fantasy "what if's", sure anything could happen. He might just dematerialize randomly while waiting for this extradition proceeding to happen. He might get elected president of the United States. Anything is possible if we just start playing random "what if's" not bound to reality. It sure is fun living in fantasy land. What prevents that person who just got a traffic violation from getting some made up charge and then faces execution, or really anyone else? Probably evidence of a crime carrying that penalty being committed, and from things we've heard from the US government even the evidence for the max 170 year indictment is potentially little shaky and questionable. Apparently the Justice Department under the Obama administration was even wondering if they'd even bother pressing charges against him and actually take him to court. So if it'd be a hard time convicting him on an indictment that has a max penalty of 170 years, what are the odds he'll get convicted on something that carries execution? What crimes do you think he'll be indicted on which carry an execution charge? Considering the US has a hard time executing people who literally make bombs for terrorists I imagine it'd be a pretty dang high bar to cross to have him indicted and convicted of a crime which carries an execution penalty. Continuing to harp on about how he faces likely execution in the US is just lies. You should really stop repeating them.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > his fellow alleged co-conspirator who probably did more of an actual crime And was actually facing execution, at one point, as the initial military charges included Article 103b “Aiding the Enemy” charges.

mschuster91 3y ago

> FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. Yeah, when facing extradition under charges that could get me holed up for life or, even worse, executed I'd go and hole myself up in an embassy just as well.

vel0city 3y ago
The person who actually did the hacking and leaking of classified documents were only charged with 35 years and was out in 7. The maximum penalty he faces is 170 years in prison, not execution and technically not a life sentence, and depending on the facts of the case it could be significantly less than that or even none at all. Saying he's facing execution is a lie. He holed himself up and has been sitting in extradition proceedings because of his own choices. In the timeframe of his fighting against ever seeing an actual courtroom for the espionage act indictment, his fellow alleged co-conspirator who probably did more of an actual crime already had a trial, served a prison sentence, and is now a free person again. Its quite possible if he didn't hole himself up for nearly a decade and continue fighting extradition he'd already be a free person.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > Saying he's facing execution is a lie. So you're trusting a country that still has the death penalty on the books, regularly uses it even on cases where the legality / quality of evidence is all but non-existent and that still has Guantanamo open to keep their word and only charge him for what they announced they'd want him extradited for? I mean, yes, the USA ain't Russia or China, but if I were facing potential 170 years in prison? Fuck no, no way I'd risk that.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    I'm trusting his indictment. The indictment he's facing has a maximum 170 years in prison, not execution. So yeah, I'd be extremely surprised if he were executed for a crime which doesn't care execution as a penalty. He's facing execution in the same way people getting a traffic citation are facing execution, in that he isn't facing execution at all. Lying about his case isn't doing anyone any favors. And if the options are hole up in an embassy where you're seemingly not entirely welcome for most of a decade and then sitting in a prison for years because you keep trying to prevent yourself from ever seeing an actual courtroom versus having a public trial where you could quite possibly be shown entirely innocent and be a free person, you'd take a self-imposed prison sentence every time?
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > I'm trusting his indictment. The indictment he's facing has a maximum 170 years in prison, not execution. What prevents the US government from filing another indictment? Usually, only the bilateral extradition agreements between nations have provisions against that (by stating that extradited persons can only be charged for the crimes listed in the warrant), but if that were violated, it would not be much more than a minor diplomatic event between the UK and US.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Well, I guess if we're going to just entertain fantasy "what if's", sure anything could happen. He might just dematerialize randomly while waiting for this extradition proceeding to happen. He might get elected president of the United States. Anything is possible if we just start playing random "what if's" not bound to reality. It sure is fun living in fantasy land. What prevents that person who just got a traffic violation from getting some made up charge and then faces execution, or really anyone else? Probably evidence of a crime carrying that penalty being committed, and from things we've heard from the US government even the evidence for the max 170 year indictment is potentially little shaky and questionable. Apparently the Justice Department under the Obama administration was even wondering if they'd even bother pressing charges against him and actually take him to court. So if it'd be a hard time convicting him on an indictment that has a max penalty of 170 years, what are the odds he'll get convicted on something that carries execution? What crimes do you think he'll be indicted on which carry an execution charge? Considering the US has a hard time executing people who literally make bombs for terrorists I imagine it'd be a pretty dang high bar to cross to have him indicted and convicted of a crime which carries an execution penalty. Continuing to harp on about how he faces likely execution in the US is just lies. You should really stop repeating them.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > his fellow alleged co-conspirator who probably did more of an actual crime And was actually facing execution, at one point, as the initial military charges included Article 103b “Aiding the Enemy” charges.