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Here is question for you: why ARM? Apple users have to switch to ARM because that's what Apple decided to use, but in PC-land you can get more performance out

Here is question for you: why ARM? Apple users have to switch to ARM because that's what Apple decided to use, but in PC-land you can get more performance out of a new ryzen for less money. You can rent an ARM VM for the odd occasion you absolutely need an ARM.

stephenr 3y ago
It's almost like OP was psychic when s/he wrote the original post: > Why arm? I want exceptional battery life.
- kramerger 3y ago
  Let me rephrase the question then: how often would a normal person need 10+ hours battery life? (there are PC laptops with 16-20 battery life, but just like with macs that number goes down significantly when you start using it for real)
  - stephenr 3y ago
    > Let me rephrase the question then: how often would a normal person need 10+ hours battery life? This isn't some hypothetical debate about what "the average person" needs to determine how important a given aspect is. It's one specific person who wants a specific thing. You don't need to question how often they need something - they've told you a specific thing they want and the reason. The "real world" tests from Laptop Mag suggest M2-series Macs have 16-18 hours of battery life doing exactly what OP asked for: browsing (and light coding). Of the 10 laptops they tested, 7 were ARM based, and the "best" non-ARM was #6 in terms of battery life, the other two were #9 and #10. Regardless of whether you want/like Macs specifically, I think arguing against the common wisdom that modern Arm devices are typically get better battery life than x86 competitors is kind of bizarre. It's like arguing that 64bit was a mistake or the Internet is just a fad.
    - kramerger 3y ago
      No, I think we are allowed to question the base assumptions here. For example, were laptops completely useless before 2020, when the best you could get out of them was 12 hours? How often in your life are you stuck on a 18 hours flight without AC power? OP mentioned light coding on Linux. What battery life would M2 achieve when running Docker in a VM? Does Ashahi Linux reach anywhere near the 16 hrs battery of macs? Apple delibertly limited Windows battery on Intel macs, do you think they would treat Linux differently. And so on...
      - stephenr 3y ago
        > were laptops completely useless before 2020, where the best you could get out of them was 12 hours? I can't believe I'm having to explain this concept to you, but no, they weren't completely useless. They were less convenient. That's what battery life gives you: convenience. I'm still somewhat flabbergasted that this concept needs to be explained. > How often in your life are you stuck on a 18 hours flight without AC power? Why does it have to be a flight? I occasionally spent all day working from a café around 2010 because my apartment had no AC. I was lucky enough to have somewhere close to home that both (a) had AC power outlets near a quiet table and (b) didn't mind me using it. Having such long life at "basic usage" levels means you're more likely to get "all day" life at higher levels of activity. Right now I work from home (using a desktop, which gasp has an Arm CPU in it) almost exclusively, but I have a UPS with 40kg (that's 88lbs) of batteries, because the power here is ridiculously unreliable - it's sometimes out for 5 hours or more. Some people like to use their laptop outside in a park or what have you. I don't know if you've been to a park lately but most of them don't have AC outlets. You seem to have some weird obsession that a long battery runtime is somehow unnecessary, and that OP should just settle for an x86 laptop and the almost-guaranteed significantly shorter runtime that comes with it. > OP mentioned light coding on Linux. What battery life would M2 achieve when running Docker in a VM? Why would OP need a VM or Docker? They want to run Linux natively, they specifically don't want to run MacOS, they just like the performance/battery life of the Mac hardware. > Does Ashahi Linux reach anywhere near the 16 hrs battery of macs? Apple delibertly limited Windows battery on Intel macs, do you think they would treat Linux differently. I have no idea about the former, and I don't even know what you're talking about with the latter - but both points are kind of moot in this discussion, maybe you missed it so far: OP DOES NOT WANT A MAC. Macs are only referenced as a comparison for performance and proof of long battery life afforded by Arm vs Intel, in a commercially available product.

stephenr 3y ago

It's almost like OP was psychic when s/he wrote the original post: > Why arm? I want exceptional battery life.

kramerger 3y ago
Let me rephrase the question then: how often would a normal person need 10+ hours battery life? (there are PC laptops with 16-20 battery life, but just like with macs that number goes down significantly when you start using it for real)
- stephenr 3y ago
  > Let me rephrase the question then: how often would a normal person need 10+ hours battery life? This isn't some hypothetical debate about what "the average person" needs to determine how important a given aspect is. It's one specific person who wants a specific thing. You don't need to question how often they need something - they've told you a specific thing they want and the reason. The "real world" tests from Laptop Mag suggest M2-series Macs have 16-18 hours of battery life doing exactly what OP asked for: browsing (and light coding). Of the 10 laptops they tested, 7 were ARM based, and the "best" non-ARM was #6 in terms of battery life, the other two were #9 and #10. Regardless of whether you want/like Macs specifically, I think arguing against the common wisdom that modern Arm devices are typically get better battery life than x86 competitors is kind of bizarre. It's like arguing that 64bit was a mistake or the Internet is just a fad.
  - kramerger 3y ago
    No, I think we are allowed to question the base assumptions here. For example, were laptops completely useless before 2020, when the best you could get out of them was 12 hours? How often in your life are you stuck on a 18 hours flight without AC power? OP mentioned light coding on Linux. What battery life would M2 achieve when running Docker in a VM? Does Ashahi Linux reach anywhere near the 16 hrs battery of macs? Apple delibertly limited Windows battery on Intel macs, do you think they would treat Linux differently. And so on...
    - stephenr 3y ago
      > were laptops completely useless before 2020, where the best you could get out of them was 12 hours? I can't believe I'm having to explain this concept to you, but no, they weren't completely useless. They were less convenient. That's what battery life gives you: convenience. I'm still somewhat flabbergasted that this concept needs to be explained. > How often in your life are you stuck on a 18 hours flight without AC power? Why does it have to be a flight? I occasionally spent all day working from a café around 2010 because my apartment had no AC. I was lucky enough to have somewhere close to home that both (a) had AC power outlets near a quiet table and (b) didn't mind me using it. Having such long life at "basic usage" levels means you're more likely to get "all day" life at higher levels of activity. Right now I work from home (using a desktop, which gasp has an Arm CPU in it) almost exclusively, but I have a UPS with 40kg (that's 88lbs) of batteries, because the power here is ridiculously unreliable - it's sometimes out for 5 hours or more. Some people like to use their laptop outside in a park or what have you. I don't know if you've been to a park lately but most of them don't have AC outlets. You seem to have some weird obsession that a long battery runtime is somehow unnecessary, and that OP should just settle for an x86 laptop and the almost-guaranteed significantly shorter runtime that comes with it. > OP mentioned light coding on Linux. What battery life would M2 achieve when running Docker in a VM? Why would OP need a VM or Docker? They want to run Linux natively, they specifically don't want to run MacOS, they just like the performance/battery life of the Mac hardware. > Does Ashahi Linux reach anywhere near the 16 hrs battery of macs? Apple delibertly limited Windows battery on Intel macs, do you think they would treat Linux differently. I have no idea about the former, and I don't even know what you're talking about with the latter - but both points are kind of moot in this discussion, maybe you missed it so far: OP DOES NOT WANT A MAC. Macs are only referenced as a comparison for performance and proof of long battery life afforded by Arm vs Intel, in a commercially available product.