6 ms·

Czech scientists confirm the existence of the π-hole in molecules

117 points by jakubmazanec 3y ago

19h 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
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pr8dan 3y ago
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- kennyadam 3y ago
  You thought they were using a DNS-based as filter with molecules?
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    It's a pun on the DNS filtering software pi-hole. As nerdy as HN is it's safe to assume this is on the front page because the name sounds funny not because the majority are secretly spending years of their lives going deep into things like molecular studies posted in Nature.
    - Etheryte 3y ago
      Alternatively, people upvote things which are intellectually interesting. Discoveries like this are interesting to read about even if you're not a molecular scientist.
      - whatshisface 3y ago
        Molecular scientists are called chemists
        Etheryte 3y ago
        Not necessarily, while there is considerable overlap, molecular physics is considered a field of its own.
calibas 3y ago
For anyone confused by the comments here: https://pi-hole.net/ https://pi-hole.net/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kzrdude 3y ago
  And https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pie-hole https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pie-hol...
- dang 3y ago
  They're flagged; let's resist now. This kind of thing is sort of at the midpoint between these two HN guidelines: "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." "Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
wkat4242 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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fooker 3y ago
Does this have real consequences for material science or chemistry? It's difficult to gauge the actual impact from the hyperbole in the article (similar to discovery of black holes, etc).
- downWidOutaFite 3y ago
  This is experimental confirmation of existing accepted theories "The confirmation of the existence of the π-hole, as well as the σ-hole before it, fully demonstrates the quality of the theoretical predictions of quantum chemistry, which have accounted for both phenomena for decades."
- gus_massa 3y ago
  IIUC: For Material Science: very little For Chemistry: Reading the paper, it looks like DFT[1] gets the same result than the experiments. It's nice to confirm DFT in a weird scenario, but it's not groundbreaking. There are a few versions and parameters to tweak in DFT, so it may help to choose the right one for similar molecules, but I'm not an expert in DFT. Black holes: That was totally hyperbole. I chuckle. It looks like people have been using pi-holes to predict the strength of the bound between molecules [2]. It's nice to be able to "see" them in a real example, but doesn't look groundbreaking. (There is always a small possibility that this technique is improved and in a few years everyone is using it to identify molecules or something like that. I don't expect that, but you never know. Sometimes experimental results create a complete new branch.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory [2] I made a search in google, and I cherry-picked these articles https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8003638/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8003638/ https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/cp/d1cp02602j https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/cp/d1cp0...
  - maverwa 3y ago
    Would it no be comparable to "seeing" the first black hole long after predicting them? AFAIK we knew black holes exists long before we finally were able to observe them. (And we still dont see them, just their effects). Is it the same way here? We knew it exists, we can use that knowledge to describe things better, but we were unable to snap a picture, until now? Still not sure if thats what the article meant, just curious.
Old_Paris 3y ago
It's just a matter of time till the existence of the k-hole get's confirmed.
- nathan_douglas 3y ago
  I experimentally verified that years in the past, when I was shacked up with some dolphins and a flexible assistant. I’m able to continually confirm the existence of a near infinite number of a-holes, though.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
gilleain 3y ago
So I'm aware of aromatic interactions in proteins and DNA <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3530875 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3530875> and electron holes - <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole> which is a quasiparticle. Is this research then relevant to charges moving through DNA or proteins?
tifik 3y ago
Link directly to the Nature article for those curious (or, like me, if you just want to see the pictures): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40593-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40593-3
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adelarsq 3y ago
Can someone explain why this discovery is linked with black holes discovery? It's just for the experimental research or its there something more?
- malux85 3y ago
  I think they are drawing on the similarity that both things (pi-hole and black holes) were theorized long before they were proven - but I dont think this is a very good addition to the article, it just confuses concepts that aren't related
rebolek 3y ago
Czechia is the world's largest electron microscopes producer so it's nice to see that the microscopes are useful in domestic research too.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  They really seem to be a technical hub especially for the size of the country.
- Arrath 3y ago
  That is a neat little fact that I didn't know, thanks!
- jliebert 3y ago
  Two things wrong here: (1) they didn't use an electron microscope, and (2) the microscope they did use was made by a German company Created Gmbh. This experiment was not done with an electron microscope, which shoots free electrons at a material at very high energies. Instead, they used "Kelvin Force Probe" microscopy which basically measures the electrostatic force from atoms on an ultra-fine tip of metal. Sounds crazy, but it's a technique that has been around for decades.
  - maverwa 3y ago
    A tiny correction if I may, I think its "CreaTec", not "Created". I think they are refering to this one: https://www.createc.de/LT-STMAFM/ https://www.createc.de/LT-STMAFM/
    - Wildgoose 3y ago
      Which looks like an auto-correct issue - I regularly curse when a correctly spelled word (perhaps including partial capitalisation) is "helpfully" corrected to a valid word that is meaningless nonsense.
google234123 3y ago
So… why wasn’t this interesting enough to get published in the proper nature journals?
deafpolygon 3y ago
So... ad-blocking in molecules exist.

117 points by jakubmazanec 3y ago

19h 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

pr8dan 3y ago

[flagged]

kennyadam 3y ago
You thought they were using a DNS-based as filter with molecules?
- zamadatix 3y ago
  It's a pun on the DNS filtering software pi-hole. As nerdy as HN is it's safe to assume this is on the front page because the name sounds funny not because the majority are secretly spending years of their lives going deep into things like molecular studies posted in Nature.
  - Etheryte 3y ago
    Alternatively, people upvote things which are intellectually interesting. Discoveries like this are interesting to read about even if you're not a molecular scientist.
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      Molecular scientists are called chemists
      - Etheryte 3y ago
        Not necessarily, while there is considerable overlap, molecular physics is considered a field of its own.

calibas 3y ago

For anyone confused by the comments here: https://pi-hole.net/ https://pi-hole.net/

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kzrdude 3y ago
And https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pie-hole https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pie-hol...
dang 3y ago
They're flagged; let's resist now. This kind of thing is sort of at the midpoint between these two HN guidelines: "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." "Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

wkat4242 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

fooker 3y ago

Does this have real consequences for material science or chemistry? It's difficult to gauge the actual impact from the hyperbole in the article (similar to discovery of black holes, etc).

downWidOutaFite 3y ago
This is experimental confirmation of existing accepted theories "The confirmation of the existence of the π-hole, as well as the σ-hole before it, fully demonstrates the quality of the theoretical predictions of quantum chemistry, which have accounted for both phenomena for decades."
gus_massa 3y ago
IIUC: For Material Science: very little For Chemistry: Reading the paper, it looks like DFT[1] gets the same result than the experiments. It's nice to confirm DFT in a weird scenario, but it's not groundbreaking. There are a few versions and parameters to tweak in DFT, so it may help to choose the right one for similar molecules, but I'm not an expert in DFT. Black holes: That was totally hyperbole. I chuckle. It looks like people have been using pi-holes to predict the strength of the bound between molecules [2]. It's nice to be able to "see" them in a real example, but doesn't look groundbreaking. (There is always a small possibility that this technique is improved and in a few years everyone is using it to identify molecules or something like that. I don't expect that, but you never know. Sometimes experimental results create a complete new branch.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory [2] I made a search in google, and I cherry-picked these articles https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8003638/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8003638/ https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/cp/d1cp02602j https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/cp/d1cp0...
- maverwa 3y ago
  Would it no be comparable to "seeing" the first black hole long after predicting them? AFAIK we knew black holes exists long before we finally were able to observe them. (And we still dont see them, just their effects). Is it the same way here? We knew it exists, we can use that knowledge to describe things better, but we were unable to snap a picture, until now? Still not sure if thats what the article meant, just curious.

Old_Paris 3y ago

It's just a matter of time till the existence of the k-hole get's confirmed.

nathan_douglas 3y ago
I experimentally verified that years in the past, when I was shacked up with some dolphins and a flexible assistant. I’m able to continually confirm the existence of a near infinite number of a-holes, though.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

gilleain 3y ago

So I'm aware of aromatic interactions in proteins and DNA <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3530875 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3530875> and electron holes - <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole> which is a quasiparticle. Is this research then relevant to charges moving through DNA or proteins?

tifik 3y ago

Link directly to the Nature article for those curious (or, like me, if you just want to see the pictures): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40593-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40593-3

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

adelarsq 3y ago

Can someone explain why this discovery is linked with black holes discovery? It's just for the experimental research or its there something more?

malux85 3y ago
I think they are drawing on the similarity that both things (pi-hole and black holes) were theorized long before they were proven - but I dont think this is a very good addition to the article, it just confuses concepts that aren't related

rebolek 3y ago

Czechia is the world's largest electron microscopes producer so it's nice to see that the microscopes are useful in domestic research too.

HPsquared 3y ago
They really seem to be a technical hub especially for the size of the country.
Arrath 3y ago
That is a neat little fact that I didn't know, thanks!
jliebert 3y ago
Two things wrong here: (1) they didn't use an electron microscope, and (2) the microscope they did use was made by a German company Created Gmbh. This experiment was not done with an electron microscope, which shoots free electrons at a material at very high energies. Instead, they used "Kelvin Force Probe" microscopy which basically measures the electrostatic force from atoms on an ultra-fine tip of metal. Sounds crazy, but it's a technique that has been around for decades.
- maverwa 3y ago
  A tiny correction if I may, I think its "CreaTec", not "Created". I think they are refering to this one: https://www.createc.de/LT-STMAFM/ https://www.createc.de/LT-STMAFM/
  - Wildgoose 3y ago
    Which looks like an auto-correct issue - I regularly curse when a correctly spelled word (perhaps including partial capitalisation) is "helpfully" corrected to a valid word that is meaningless nonsense.

google234123 3y ago

So… why wasn’t this interesting enough to get published in the proper nature journals?

deafpolygon 3y ago

So... ad-blocking in molecules exist.