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>Assange and WikiLeaks uncovered legitimate war crimes or inacceptable behaviour by the USA. There is no denying that. There is not a single newsworthy event u

>Assange and WikiLeaks uncovered legitimate war crimes or inacceptable behaviour by the USA. There is no denying that. There is not a single newsworthy event uncovered by Assange that wasn't covered in the "lame stream" media prior to wikileaks. The coverage just wasn't sexy, with -leaks appended to it. Collateral Murder set the tone for Assange. People think he uncovered the event. This is incorrect. It was widely covered in the press prior to wikileaks, and the press didn't release a deceptively-edited video to stir up sexy, sexy, sexiness. There's more strikes against Assange, including lying about Sunshine Press being a non-profit, using John Young (who Assange wishes he was) to the point that Young started wikileaking wikileaks, not providing Wau Holland with proper accounting so Wau Holland couldn't release the audits they promised, and hanging their sources out to dry. But for me the pinnacle of his hypocrisy and scumminess was his deal with Russian state-controlled media for a television news show, starring him. (Which everyone seems to have forgotten about?)

mschuster91 3y ago
I agree that there's a lot of bad things to be said about Assange and his conduct (both personal and regarding WikiLeaks itself), and some of it certainly warrants jail time if proven true (such as the allegations of sexual assault or the accounting issues). But it does not warrant the threat of life-long incarceration looming over him, and in any case, at least following European sentencing standards, holing him up in an embassy room for years is equivalent to a prison sentence for these crimes anyway. Justice has been served, let the guy out ffs.
- vel0city 3y ago
  FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. I'm not arguing his innocence or guilt here, just examining the logic of his holing up at the embassy as some kind of time served. If I commit a crime and go hiding in the woods for a few years before my trial, does that mean I should serve no prison time?
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. Yeah, when facing extradition under charges that could get me holed up for life or, even worse, executed I'd go and hole myself up in an embassy just as well.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      The person who actually did the hacking and leaking of classified documents were only charged with 35 years and was out in 7. The maximum penalty he faces is 170 years in prison, not execution and technically not a life sentence, and depending on the facts of the case it could be significantly less than that or even none at all. Saying he's facing execution is a lie. He holed himself up and has been sitting in extradition proceedings because of his own choices. In the timeframe of his fighting against ever seeing an actual courtroom for the espionage act indictment, his fellow alleged co-conspirator who probably did more of an actual crime already had a trial, served a prison sentence, and is now a free person again. Its quite possible if he didn't hole himself up for nearly a decade and continue fighting extradition he'd already be a free person.
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > Saying he's facing execution is a lie. So you're trusting a country that still has the death penalty on the books, regularly uses it even on cases where the legality / quality of evidence is all but non-existent and that still has Guantanamo open to keep their word and only charge him for what they announced they'd want him extradited for? I mean, yes, the USA ain't Russia or China, but if I were facing potential 170 years in prison? Fuck no, no way I'd risk that.
        vel0city 3y ago
        I'm trusting his indictment. The indictment he's facing has a maximum 170 years in prison, not execution. So yeah, I'd be extremely surprised if he were executed for a crime which doesn't care execution as a penalty. He's facing execution in the same way people getting a traffic citation are facing execution, in that he isn't facing execution at all. Lying about his case isn't doing anyone any favors. And if the options are hole up in an embassy where you're seemingly not entirely welcome for most of a decade and then sitting in a prison for years because you keep trying to prevent yourself from ever seeing an actual courtroom versus having a public trial where you could quite possibly be shown entirely innocent and be a free person, you'd take a self-imposed prison sentence every time?

mschuster91 3y ago

I agree that there's a lot of bad things to be said about Assange and his conduct (both personal and regarding WikiLeaks itself), and some of it certainly warrants jail time if proven true (such as the allegations of sexual assault or the accounting issues). But it does not warrant the threat of life-long incarceration looming over him, and in any case, at least following European sentencing standards, holing him up in an embassy room for years is equivalent to a prison sentence for these crimes anyway. Justice has been served, let the guy out ffs.

vel0city 3y ago
FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. I'm not arguing his innocence or guilt here, just examining the logic of his holing up at the embassy as some kind of time served. If I commit a crime and go hiding in the woods for a few years before my trial, does that mean I should serve no prison time?
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > FWIW, the US didn't hole him up in an embassy for years he did that himself. Yeah, when facing extradition under charges that could get me holed up for life or, even worse, executed I'd go and hole myself up in an embassy just as well.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    The person who actually did the hacking and leaking of classified documents were only charged with 35 years and was out in 7. The maximum penalty he faces is 170 years in prison, not execution and technically not a life sentence, and depending on the facts of the case it could be significantly less than that or even none at all. Saying he's facing execution is a lie. He holed himself up and has been sitting in extradition proceedings because of his own choices. In the timeframe of his fighting against ever seeing an actual courtroom for the espionage act indictment, his fellow alleged co-conspirator who probably did more of an actual crime already had a trial, served a prison sentence, and is now a free person again. Its quite possible if he didn't hole himself up for nearly a decade and continue fighting extradition he'd already be a free person.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > Saying he's facing execution is a lie. So you're trusting a country that still has the death penalty on the books, regularly uses it even on cases where the legality / quality of evidence is all but non-existent and that still has Guantanamo open to keep their word and only charge him for what they announced they'd want him extradited for? I mean, yes, the USA ain't Russia or China, but if I were facing potential 170 years in prison? Fuck no, no way I'd risk that.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        I'm trusting his indictment. The indictment he's facing has a maximum 170 years in prison, not execution. So yeah, I'd be extremely surprised if he were executed for a crime which doesn't care execution as a penalty. He's facing execution in the same way people getting a traffic citation are facing execution, in that he isn't facing execution at all. Lying about his case isn't doing anyone any favors. And if the options are hole up in an embassy where you're seemingly not entirely welcome for most of a decade and then sitting in a prison for years because you keep trying to prevent yourself from ever seeing an actual courtroom versus having a public trial where you could quite possibly be shown entirely innocent and be a free person, you'd take a self-imposed prison sentence every time?