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Buying a low end Apple product is a terrible idea. They cannot be upgraded. So you'll just be stuck with 8GB of RAM and 256GB internal storage... meaning lots o

Buying a low end Apple product is a terrible idea. They cannot be upgraded. So you'll just be stuck with 8GB of RAM and 256GB internal storage... meaning lots of problems with getting all the dozen dongles and external devices you have to attach to it staying working. And don't even think about trying to open Photoshop and a browser. The only decent apple computers start at about $2k and up.

wredue 3y ago
As opposed to the 4 gig of ram and 128g of storage on the Chromebooks which cannot be upgraded that this is meant to compete with?
- superkuh 3y ago
  Yes. Those are terrible computers too but at least they advertise they aren't full computers.
  - wredue 3y ago
    All you know at this point is that these are low cost computers, and there appears to be a target of grade school use. Chromebooks are not meant for photoshop. I don’t know what you mean by “not full computers”.
    - maleldil 3y ago
      > I don’t know what you mean by “not full computers” Chromebooks are sold as laptops that run (only) Chrome. It's in the name. Most people don't expect to able to run full-blown desktop applications on them.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
hotstickyballs 3y ago
Most apps are web apps these days. No need for good hardware. Just dedicated js and video player functionality is good enough
LazyMans 3y ago
Apple devices seem to handle resources much more efficiently. Especially the m1/m2 units. Got my mom an entry level air 7 years ago. It's still super fast, even on the latest supported MacOS. If you need large amounts of memory, purchasing something without that is a bad idea, yes.
yowlingcat 3y ago
Have you used a recent M1/M2 Macbook yet? Even on the low end, their ability to deliver grunt over what the specs might imply is very impressive compared to a similarly specced PC. I had the same skepticism as you until I got my first M1 Macbook and saw it move very slickly with anything I threw at it despite the modest specs.
- superkuh 3y ago
  I do tech support for a couple extended family members that have M1 macbooks and they're quite terrible computers. I couldn't believe Apple sold a computer for $1600 with only 8GB of ram and 256GB storage and a 13" screen. I spend most of my time re: M1 Apple computers fixing the people's problems with their computer not being able to back up to their external drives because the internal tiny drives are full and time machine can't run.
  - stevezsa8 3y ago
    Why do apple charge a premium but give the lowest storage and ram they can get away with (at least for the base models)... I would genuinely like to know. Especially now that it's all onboard. If I was charging through the nose I'd at least solder a few extra nand chips out of an ethical desire to give a full-fat product for the premium price. I know Dell do the same thing though. If you want extra ram... it'll be 3x what Amazon will sell at. But apple charge a bigger premium for the base product I feel.
tiltowait 3y ago
> The only decent apple computers start at about $2k and up. Sorry, but this is either plain wrong, or you have a more demanding workload than the vast majority of users. The Macbook Air is a fantastic machine available for far less than $2k.
- daft_pink 3y ago
  It's true that the Macbook Air satisfies a number of use cases, but I would argue that a stripped down Chromebook type laptop would satisfy a lot of those use cases as well. The problem is that to get multiple displays, virtualize Windows, do video editing, etc. You need to upgrade to 16gb of ram and 1tb of storage if not more, which quickly puts you around $2k.
  - compiler-guy 3y ago
    Higher end use cases (which virtualizing windows is) requires higher end hardware. I'm not surprised the base machines don't work for that case. Of course, chromebooks don't really either. It's a bit like saying the Ford F150 pickup can't tow 20,000 pounds. It's true, and if you need to tow that much you need the more expensive pickup. But the F150 does just fine with lighter loads, and people love it.
    - daft_pink 3y ago
      They should work, the problem is that to actually virtualize, you need more ram and adequate hard drive space for the vm's, it's not upgradable and the upgrades cost a fortune. A 16gb 1tb Macbook Air 13" is 1,799 so not quite 2,000 but close enough. Anyways, the comment we are replying to wasn't comparing the chromebook to a macbook, it's just saying that you have to pay $2k for a decent mac, which is true, because a 16gb, 1 tb macbook air 13" with applecare is $2k. Otherwise you're just writing word documents and surfing the web, which any machine can do.
Eric_WVGG 3y ago
Back when the M1's debuted, my 2016 Pro was sort of disintegrating, so I sprung for a lowest-tier Air (8gb RAM 256 SSD) as a stopgap until the M1 Pro I really wanted came along. use: full-stack web, some dallying in XCode. That computer freaking soared, more performant than my older computer with 4x RAM. And software has not gotten more demanding in the past year… or the past ten years, really. These computers do more with less. The game has changed, this isn't the nineties where an eighteen-month-old computer can't run new games or whatever.
phpisthebest 3y ago
>>And don't even think about trying to open Photoshop You believe everyone uses Photoshop? or even uses a Graphics editor at all. >> They cannot be upgraded. I would say over 60% of all laptops sold today can not be upgraded.. even more if you only look at RAM, a majority of laptops from Dell, Lenovo, etc have non-upgradable memory. and very limited upgrade options for storage.
- superkuh 3y ago
  I agree, those laptops are terrible too. But whataboutism doesn't change that they're both terrible. Nor that decent laptops exist, nor that good desktops exist.

wredue 3y ago

As opposed to the 4 gig of ram and 128g of storage on the Chromebooks which cannot be upgraded that this is meant to compete with?

superkuh 3y ago
Yes. Those are terrible computers too but at least they advertise they aren't full computers.
- wredue 3y ago
  All you know at this point is that these are low cost computers, and there appears to be a target of grade school use. Chromebooks are not meant for photoshop. I don’t know what you mean by “not full computers”.
  - maleldil 3y ago
    > I don’t know what you mean by “not full computers” Chromebooks are sold as laptops that run (only) Chrome. It's in the name. Most people don't expect to able to run full-blown desktop applications on them.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

hotstickyballs 3y ago

Most apps are web apps these days. No need for good hardware. Just dedicated js and video player functionality is good enough

LazyMans 3y ago

Apple devices seem to handle resources much more efficiently. Especially the m1/m2 units. Got my mom an entry level air 7 years ago. It's still super fast, even on the latest supported MacOS. If you need large amounts of memory, purchasing something without that is a bad idea, yes.

yowlingcat 3y ago

Have you used a recent M1/M2 Macbook yet? Even on the low end, their ability to deliver grunt over what the specs might imply is very impressive compared to a similarly specced PC. I had the same skepticism as you until I got my first M1 Macbook and saw it move very slickly with anything I threw at it despite the modest specs.

superkuh 3y ago
I do tech support for a couple extended family members that have M1 macbooks and they're quite terrible computers. I couldn't believe Apple sold a computer for $1600 with only 8GB of ram and 256GB storage and a 13" screen. I spend most of my time re: M1 Apple computers fixing the people's problems with their computer not being able to back up to their external drives because the internal tiny drives are full and time machine can't run.
- stevezsa8 3y ago
  Why do apple charge a premium but give the lowest storage and ram they can get away with (at least for the base models)... I would genuinely like to know. Especially now that it's all onboard. If I was charging through the nose I'd at least solder a few extra nand chips out of an ethical desire to give a full-fat product for the premium price. I know Dell do the same thing though. If you want extra ram... it'll be 3x what Amazon will sell at. But apple charge a bigger premium for the base product I feel.

tiltowait 3y ago

> The only decent apple computers start at about $2k and up. Sorry, but this is either plain wrong, or you have a more demanding workload than the vast majority of users. The Macbook Air is a fantastic machine available for far less than $2k.

daft_pink 3y ago
It's true that the Macbook Air satisfies a number of use cases, but I would argue that a stripped down Chromebook type laptop would satisfy a lot of those use cases as well. The problem is that to get multiple displays, virtualize Windows, do video editing, etc. You need to upgrade to 16gb of ram and 1tb of storage if not more, which quickly puts you around $2k.
- compiler-guy 3y ago
  Higher end use cases (which virtualizing windows is) requires higher end hardware. I'm not surprised the base machines don't work for that case. Of course, chromebooks don't really either. It's a bit like saying the Ford F150 pickup can't tow 20,000 pounds. It's true, and if you need to tow that much you need the more expensive pickup. But the F150 does just fine with lighter loads, and people love it.
  - daft_pink 3y ago
    They should work, the problem is that to actually virtualize, you need more ram and adequate hard drive space for the vm's, it's not upgradable and the upgrades cost a fortune. A 16gb 1tb Macbook Air 13" is 1,799 so not quite 2,000 but close enough. Anyways, the comment we are replying to wasn't comparing the chromebook to a macbook, it's just saying that you have to pay $2k for a decent mac, which is true, because a 16gb, 1 tb macbook air 13" with applecare is $2k. Otherwise you're just writing word documents and surfing the web, which any machine can do.

Eric_WVGG 3y ago

Back when the M1's debuted, my 2016 Pro was sort of disintegrating, so I sprung for a lowest-tier Air (8gb RAM 256 SSD) as a stopgap until the M1 Pro I really wanted came along. use: full-stack web, some dallying in XCode. That computer freaking soared, more performant than my older computer with 4x RAM. And software has not gotten more demanding in the past year… or the past ten years, really. These computers do more with less. The game has changed, this isn't the nineties where an eighteen-month-old computer can't run new games or whatever.

phpisthebest 3y ago

>>And don't even think about trying to open Photoshop You believe everyone uses Photoshop? or even uses a Graphics editor at all. >> They cannot be upgraded. I would say over 60% of all laptops sold today can not be upgraded.. even more if you only look at RAM, a majority of laptops from Dell, Lenovo, etc have non-upgradable memory. and very limited upgrade options for storage.

superkuh 3y ago
I agree, those laptops are terrible too. But whataboutism doesn't change that they're both terrible. Nor that decent laptops exist, nor that good desktops exist.