4 ms·

Ehhh no ethical consumption and all that but I’m gonna have to go ahead and disagree with that last sentence. If I become aware of a business treating workers p

Ehhh no ethical consumption and all that but I’m gonna have to go ahead and disagree with that last sentence. If I become aware of a business treating workers poorly I’m inclined to find an alternative.

nlh 3y ago
Very fair point. I considered revising that as I wrote it. I think consumers can and should be able to "protest" (for some definition of protest) by either choosing an alternative or tipping more or whatever. But that should be a consumer decision, not necessarily an obligation.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  As someone else mentioned, "tipping more" does not protest the practice of paying workers poorly. In fact it enables and reinforces the practice.
vuln 3y ago
The alternative is to not use apps and stop being lazy / going after the most convenient route. Humans are addicted to convenience no matter the cost.
- 5040 3y ago
  >Humans are addicted to convenience no matter the cost. Another way of stating this is that people pay for convenience, and why not?
  - vuln 3y ago
    Folks subvert _security measures_ due to perceived or real inconvenience also. In this example one is getting paid to do a task, security controls make the task longer, less convenient, the human will find ways to subvert the inconvenience of the security controls.
    - 5040 3y ago
      Good point. Calls to mind the sharing of access control cards or the using of various means to prevent computers from locking in hospital settings, etc.
janalsncm 3y ago
It seems like their market is a duopoly, so finding an alternative may not be possible.
- kzrdude 3y ago
  Not ordering delivery is an alternative
  - minitoar 3y ago
    I do find myself mostly doing this, or ordering delivery from places that self-deliver.
manicennui 3y ago
Better prepare yourself for the long list of things you depend on provided by companies that treat their employees like shit. Is your argument that we should try to remain ignorant of these things?
- capableweb 3y ago
  > Is your argument that we should try to remain ignorant of these things? Is that really the most charitable way you could read parents comment? Obviously they're not arguing for that, but rather arguing for "voting with your money", so stop using services where abuse is evident/apparent. And yes, it's a fairly large list, but it's not unmanageable. Me and my family try to do the same, it's not a huge hassle and it's not like you have to look up every single company before you buy anything, but if something comes up about a specific brand like "Nestle" or whatever, then we change to something else. Lastly, the list is smaller than you think, I think. Most common consumer stuff you have at home is made by few huge corporations owning all the brands. "The Illusion of Choice in Consumer Brands" (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/illusion-of-choice-consumer-brands/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/illusion-of-choice-consumer...) is a famous view that shows you the situation.
  - manicennui 3y ago
    It isn't manageable. Do you have any idea how electronics are made? How the materials are obtained?
    - capableweb 3y ago
      I'd like to believe I have some clue, yes. It feels like you allude that I don't. Is there something specific you'd like to mention here, or am I supposed to guess?
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      The fact that everything americans buy is built off of oppression is not an acceptable argument that we should ignore such oppression. It's just entitlement that you should be free to buy such products made with literal slave labor with no moral qualms. We should call it the Nestle argument, that caring about slave labor would be very inconvenient, so we shouldn't. Instead, you should probably petition the FTC to not allow a company profiting from slave labor to buy up all it's competition.
BeetleB 3y ago
> If I become aware of a business treating workers poorly I’m inclined to find an alternative. I agree, provided there is actually clear evidence of it. A generic "Well we all know these services don't pay their workers enough" doesn't suffice. And the solution is to find an alternative, and not "Let me pay this guy a nice tip because I know he is poorly treated, so that I can enable those who hire him to continue to pay poor wages."
6D794163636F756 3y ago
Just because it's not our responsibility doesn't mean we can't vote with our wallets. I try not to give money to terrible companies but ya know what? I'd rather labor laws do that instead. For example, I have type one diabetes. I'd love to not give Eli Lily another cent but I don't have that option. I know it's not the same as abusing workers, but abusing a captive market is also boycott worthy.

nlh 3y ago

Very fair point. I considered revising that as I wrote it. I think consumers can and should be able to "protest" (for some definition of protest) by either choosing an alternative or tipping more or whatever. But that should be a consumer decision, not necessarily an obligation.

ryandrake 3y ago
As someone else mentioned, "tipping more" does not protest the practice of paying workers poorly. In fact it enables and reinforces the practice.

vuln 3y ago

The alternative is to not use apps and stop being lazy / going after the most convenient route. Humans are addicted to convenience no matter the cost.

5040 3y ago
>Humans are addicted to convenience no matter the cost. Another way of stating this is that people pay for convenience, and why not?
- vuln 3y ago
  Folks subvert _security measures_ due to perceived or real inconvenience also. In this example one is getting paid to do a task, security controls make the task longer, less convenient, the human will find ways to subvert the inconvenience of the security controls.
  - 5040 3y ago
    Good point. Calls to mind the sharing of access control cards or the using of various means to prevent computers from locking in hospital settings, etc.

janalsncm 3y ago

It seems like their market is a duopoly, so finding an alternative may not be possible.

kzrdude 3y ago
Not ordering delivery is an alternative
- minitoar 3y ago
  I do find myself mostly doing this, or ordering delivery from places that self-deliver.

manicennui 3y ago

Better prepare yourself for the long list of things you depend on provided by companies that treat their employees like shit. Is your argument that we should try to remain ignorant of these things?

capableweb 3y ago
> Is your argument that we should try to remain ignorant of these things? Is that really the most charitable way you could read parents comment? Obviously they're not arguing for that, but rather arguing for "voting with your money", so stop using services where abuse is evident/apparent. And yes, it's a fairly large list, but it's not unmanageable. Me and my family try to do the same, it's not a huge hassle and it's not like you have to look up every single company before you buy anything, but if something comes up about a specific brand like "Nestle" or whatever, then we change to something else. Lastly, the list is smaller than you think, I think. Most common consumer stuff you have at home is made by few huge corporations owning all the brands. "The Illusion of Choice in Consumer Brands" (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/illusion-of-choice-consumer-brands/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/illusion-of-choice-consumer...) is a famous view that shows you the situation.
- manicennui 3y ago
  It isn't manageable. Do you have any idea how electronics are made? How the materials are obtained?
  - capableweb 3y ago
    I'd like to believe I have some clue, yes. It feels like you allude that I don't. Is there something specific you'd like to mention here, or am I supposed to guess?
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    The fact that everything americans buy is built off of oppression is not an acceptable argument that we should ignore such oppression. It's just entitlement that you should be free to buy such products made with literal slave labor with no moral qualms. We should call it the Nestle argument, that caring about slave labor would be very inconvenient, so we shouldn't. Instead, you should probably petition the FTC to not allow a company profiting from slave labor to buy up all it's competition.

BeetleB 3y ago

> If I become aware of a business treating workers poorly I’m inclined to find an alternative. I agree, provided there is actually clear evidence of it. A generic "Well we all know these services don't pay their workers enough" doesn't suffice. And the solution is to find an alternative, and not "Let me pay this guy a nice tip because I know he is poorly treated, so that I can enable those who hire him to continue to pay poor wages."

6D794163636F756 3y ago

Just because it's not our responsibility doesn't mean we can't vote with our wallets. I try not to give money to terrible companies but ya know what? I'd rather labor laws do that instead. For example, I have type one diabetes. I'd love to not give Eli Lily another cent but I don't have that option. I know it's not the same as abusing workers, but abusing a captive market is also boycott worthy.