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ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard
- kbknapp 3y agoMy wife isn't going to be happy about this... I have an ErgoDox EZ at home, and a Moonlander for work. I absolutely love these keyboards. They have played a significant role in reducing pain I experience from arthritis.
- frutiger 3y agoYour wife micromanages your budget?
- argiopetech 3y agoH: "Honey, I bought a new $370 keyboard." W: "Another one?! You already have one for the house and one for the office... Where is this one going to go?" Doesn't have to be budget micromanagement.
- frutiger 3y ago> W: "Another one?! You already have one for the house and one for the office... Where is this one going to go?" You might be confusing “wife is interested in my hobbies” with “wife is not happy”. The former is what you described and the latter is literally what GGGP said.
- cjohnson318 3y agoGoing over expenses together with your partner is important. If you don't have a partner, then you can spend money on whatever you want; you're only going to impact yourself.
- frutiger 3y agoUnless GP is close to destitute, bickering over spending $400 on their primary tool that presumably keeps them gainfully employed is the literal definition of micromanagement. I do have a partner and she has autonomy over the money we earn together as do I, because we trust each other to make reasonable decisions.
- cjohnson318 3y agoI have one of these fancy keyboards. It is not the "primary tool that keeps me gainfully employed".
- mtlynch 3y agoYou can't both have autonomy over the same resource. It sounds like you and your partner have a mutual understanding of the other's spending, and your expenses are low enough and/or your income is high enough that it doesn't create problems when you spend below the implicit limits. That's great for you, but it comes across as narrow-minded to talk as though a $400 expense is unworthy of discussion to every couple.
- frutiger 3y ago> unworthy of discussion to every couple. “Unworthy of discussion” vs. “isn’t going to be happy” is a good way to move the goalposts. I suppose I’m just tired of the juvenile meme of “my wallet is going to hurt” or “my wife [almost always wife, and never husband; what does that say?] is going to be upset” at <insert hobby>. If that’s the level of trust one has in their life partner, one ought to take a closer look at what’s really important to oneself.
- apozem 3y agoI love my ErgoDox so much. If it broke, I would immediately purchase a new one. Cannot imagine trying to go without it.
- etra0 3y agoI can totally relate. I bought my ErgoDox EZ a while ago and I still love it. I changed the switches for some lubed linears, and added some foam and now it even sounds better. It also reduced my wrist pain. I'm debating with myself whether to get the Moonlander or not. I don't actually need it, but it looks so cool (and the USB port of the ErgoDox is quite outdated haha).
- spiralpolitik 3y agoThe latest Ergodox model now has USB-C.
- coisale13 3y agoI love my ergodox ez. I got the moon lander, and it looks cool but I do not like it. Niether does my friend. The tenting tilts the thumb away which makes it uncomfortable. I wish I just got another ergodox ez (eventually I did).
- fernandotakai 3y agohow's the moonlander btw? i'm thinking about getting one specifically for work.
- SamSkjord 3y agosteep learning curve if you've never used a split\ortho board but once you learn how to type again (couple of weeks for me), other than that my wrist pain is now gone! only real downside is people asking why I have a pair of glowing oven gloves on my desk
- Zambyte 3y agoI'd like to add that switching to a drastically different keyboard is the perfect opportunity to simultaneously switch keyboard layouts if thats something you've been considering. I switched from QWERTY to a layout based on Programmer Dvorak when I got my Moonlander. I'm really glad I did.
- JadoJodo 3y agoSame, though it was painful. Took me ~6 months to go from 6-fingered pecking to full proficiency with split-keyboard Dvorak. 100% worth it, though.
- prometheon1 3y agoThis was exactly my line of thought when I got the Moonlander (except I thought Colemak). It has been gathering dust in my shelf for almost 2 years now.
- Zambyte 3y agoWhat kind of board do you use instead?
- prometheon1 3y agoI mainly use my macbook m1 as my keyboard (also when connected to external screen) Before this I used a thinkpad as my keyboard
- ModernMech 3y agoLead with the pain reducing angle. Tell her it's better to be addicted to keyboards than painkillers!
- fimdomeio 3y agoWhat's with the gradient/rainbow led trend? Is it just me that don't have the necessary cultural references to find it appealing? To me I immediately associate it with an unprofessional, cheap look.
- ModernMech 3y agoIt's supposed to show that all colors are supported. You can program it to what you like.
- shlubbert 3y agoYou can turn it off.
- simias 3y agoI don't like it either but if it's like the moonlander it's fully customizable and uses QMK under the hood, so the sky is the limit. I don't really like having a lightshow on my keyboard so the LEDs are off all the time for me but in the past I've used them to change color depending on the layout I'm using for instance. I'm sure a more creative hacker could come up with something useful.
- samcat116 3y ago> Is it just me that don't have the necessary cultural references to find it appealing? Yes, RGB has been popular for many years now. Nice that I can pick any color or color pattern I like
- baz00 3y agoI agree. It looks tacky, cheap, unprofessional and distasteful. Not only that half the RGB keyboards fuck out fairly quickly or have power and USB problems. Electric truck nuts. That's all it is.
- ajford 3y agoThen disable it. It's a preference option that can be used to express yourself or even indicate things in your layer configuration. I switch backlight colors based on layout. The default typing layer is in my favorite shade of blue, then when I'm on my "ide shortcut/F-key layer" then it switches to a complementary share of orange. When I'm on my "common shortcuts/media control" layer it switches to purple for valid shortcut keys while the media keys have their own color layout to more quickly indicate where back/fwd/play/mute is. No one says you have to use unicorn vomit colors or a constantly shifting color pattern. But it does look good in a demo and does a great job of indicating that it's not a solid color.
- co_dh 3y agoAt this price(360), I may want to try glove80.
- Pet_Ant 3y ago...which starts at $399, so it's a preference at that point...
- ivanjermakov 3y agoPlease also consider Ferris Sweep: https://github.com/davidphilipbarr/Sweep https://github.com/davidphilipbarr/Sweep
- chaxor 3y agoI really want to, but it needs to be very cheap to go through the effort of making it yourself. A very easy 'snap together' like keyboard bought in different components should at least knock the price down to ~$100
- rcarr 3y agoYou can buy them readymade from Keebmaker for around $200 if you're going wireless https://keebmaker.com/collections/custom-keyboards/products/ferris-sweep https://keebmaker.com/collections/custom-keyboards/products/...
- shivekkhurana 3y agoIf anyone from ZSA is here, please make wireless keyboards. I’m rocking an Ergodox for the past few years. It’s worth every penny, but I cannot carry it around with all the cables.
- edanm 3y agoVery much seconded. I have an Ergodox and a Moonlander (and a bunch of other keyboards), but I've already decided I'm not getting anything new until it's available in a wireless option.
- teach 3y agoI'm looking forward to giving the Keychron K15 Pro a spin. It's not _nearly_ as compact as something like the Voyager, but I've never been productive on <75% layouts. My only missing feature is layer support, so if anyone from Keychron is listening....
- 7839284023 3y agoI don't think they will or at least not with QMK running in the background. They would need to switch to ZMK first in my opinion. See this comment chain: https://old.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/s95y98/is_bluetooth_with_qmk_rare_because_its_a/ https://old.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/s95y98/is_bluetooth_w...
- mkozlows 3y agoKeychron makes QMK wireless keyboards, so there's no blocker on the tech side.
- rollcat 3y agohttps://www.zsa.io/wireless https://www.zsa.io/wireless
- hwbehrens 3y agoA competing option that does include wireless is the Dygma Defy [0], which does have more keys but might be a good option for you if you're okay with not being ultra-minimalist. [0]: https://dygma.com/products/dygma-defy https://dygma.com/products/dygma-defy
- 7839284023 3y agoThat's very expensive! I would recommend buying a Dilemma instead: https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma/ https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma/ or building one of the hundreds of DIY open source keyboards e.g.: - https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside (46-56 keys) - https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM (38 keys)
- mkozlows 3y ago"Things you build yourself" aren't really in competition with pre-built things for most people. Also, that Dilemma costs over $200 for an RGB PCB plus case. Add brand-name switches and keycaps, and you're not far off the price of this, and also you had to do the assembly yourself.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bsnnkv 3y agoI have quite a few of these sorts of keyboards, including the Ergodox EZ. I think for generalist usage they can be adapted to pretty easily, but as a developer, the lack of dedicated keys for [, ] and ' is an insurmountable obstacle for me. Those keys are in my opinion perfectly placed on regular keyboards and no amount of layering, tap dancing or anything else will ever come close. Please somebody just make a split ergo keyboard where the right side has extra keys for regular programming symbols on the top layer. The two halves do not need to be symmetrical.
- krzyk 3y agoand lack of F1-F12 is a show stopper for me, I use them in my IDE.
- rgoulter 3y agoThese small keyboards trade-off the benefit of "bring all the keys within easy reach of the hands" at the cost of a more complicated layout. The intent is "be able to press F1-F12 without having to move hands so far from home row"; it's not "I want a smaller keyboard and don't need F1-F12".
- hwbehrens 3y agoI've been using these types of keyboards for a couple years now, and I find that although the enthusiast community has sort of gravitated towards <50 key layouts, trying to achieve the complex combinations often required by IDEs can be an exercise in dexterity (both physically and mentally). For example, let's say you need to do Shift-Option-F12. First, you need to hold a modifier to bring your F key layer, possibly a separate or chorded modifier to get you to the F-keys above 10 since you only have have 10 numeric digits. Then, that needs to be compatible with both your shift modifier AND your option modifier, which with only 2 thumb keys per side it probably won't be. So, then you think, oh no worries, I'll just set up a single shortcut that does what I need, but then you end up with a profusion of shortcuts that you need to remember. I've found that in practice, I can't really go much below 58 keys and 3 layers without requiring tap-and-hold or losing some of my less-frequently used chars (` comes to mind), so I can sympathize with the ancestor posts.
- birdiesanders 3y agoFinally. My love of the sweep has proven to be correct, two thumb keys is the way. I am using a ZMK powered Urchin, a sweep variant, as my only daily use keyboard, 34 keys of love.
- rgoulter 3y agoI think retaining the number row and the outer pinky column makes it more accessible; but I find it odd the design then also removes the lower row of modifier keys, and only gives two thumb keys each. It's good to use the thumbs more than the pinky fingers. -- But, I'd think an introductory keyboard would retain modifier keys for the pinky fingers to use.
- mrtobo 3y agoMounting a wired keyboard never seemed practical to me.
- yeahboats 3y agoOnly two thumb keys seems like it could be a pain. I don't love trying to figure out the timing delays for tap vs hold. After a long search I settled on the Hillside 46 [1][2] which has 4 thumb keys and a splayed layout. Also choc spacing, as I didn't love the gaps between choc keycaps with mx spacing. Not sure why, as the macbook pro keyboard doesn't seem to give me any problems. I like the all the case options and mods available to the ZSA keyboards. The biggest problem with building your own I feel is the cost of getting a nice, solid feeling case. [1] https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside/tree/main/hillside46 https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside/tree/main/hillside46 [2] https://i.imgur.com/i0VkWG1.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/i0VkWG1.jpeg
- rollcat 3y ago> Only two thumb keys seems like it could be a pain. Depending on the context (mostly in games), I sometimes hit "B" with a thumb on my Ergodox. I think holding B/V for layer toggles could work on this board?
- asu_thomas 3y agoHonestly looks terrible. I'll keep my Glove80. https://www.moergo.com https://www.moergo.com
- Pet_Ant 3y agoCan you use it wired? I hate wireless anything and the pairing issues that arise after a battery swap or anything. --- Edit: kept scrolling, yes you can.
- microtonal 3y agoSorry for the late reply, hope you still read this. Yes, you can use the Glove80 wired, but the communication between the halves will always be wireless.
- asu_thomas 3y agoYessir
- revscat 3y agoSo I'm on team wired as well, but honestly it does seem like the "change the batteries lose the info" thing has become far less common.
- swah 3y agoAnything that someone on the 3rd world can get? Also the price is steep.
- rgoulter 3y agoThe idea of the magnetic accessories for a steel case seems interesting. I've seen some split keyboards have a tripod mount option. But, otherwise, I've not seen ideas for sharing 'accessories' across multiple split keyboard designs.
- utybo 3y agoI'm a bit disappointed by the new offering and the retirement of the Planck EZ. I fully understand the decisions that were made, and while ZSA's keyboards are phenomenal, there is no way I'd buy one at a 404€ price point (including French VAT, excluding customs costs which would bump it to around 450€). The Planck EZ was great because its price point made it justifiable, mine coming around at ~320€ including VAT and customs, which is the max amount of money I'd be willing to spend. I don't think we'll ever see something like the Planck EZ again (as in a very compact and more affordable option) since the Voyager is the new "laptop solution", and that honestly sucks. (Side note for anyone pedant enough to care: these customs costs are both actual customs import taxes and the fee taken by the courier for customs processes)
- delusional 3y agoWhat's the difference between the Planck EZ and the myriad of other Plancks out there? I have two OLKB Plancks (one is the massdrop version the other is the EOTW variant), and they are both pretty nice Plancks.
- Zezima 3y agoCan anyone identify the laptop stand in the promo video at 0:30?
- JoWilliams 3y agoIts this one :) https://www.amazon.com/ElfAnt-Laptop-Adjustable-Portable-Aluminum/dp/B086L35VML/ref=sxin_16_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa https://www.amazon.com/ElfAnt-Laptop-Adjustable-Portable-Alu...
- Zezima 3y agoThank you!! So hard to sift through hundreds of products.
- tevon 3y agoSurprised Dygma hasn't been mentioned yet. https://dygma.com/pages/defy https://dygma.com/pages/defy Equally as expensive, but really good, team is very responsive and involved with the community, and their customization software is getting better and better. Also wireless option.
- gassiss 3y agoI have a raise, the build quality is definitely top notch. But their software/firmware is very underwhelming if you want to do anything besides basic key remapping and basic layers. I just ended up giving up on trying to use their stuff, and opted for software based remapping instead
- tiltowait 3y agoIt looks all right, but the tiny thumb clusters kills it for me. I think Keyboardio really nailed the layout, to the point that pretty much all other similar keyboard designs are DOA for me.
- lucw 3y agoon the keyboardio, how do you accurately hit the right thumb key ? the four thumb keys all have the same shape. I see a high risk of getting them confused.
- egypturnash 3y agoThis is lovely and kind of tempting but, like every keyboard-nerd keyboard, it's made by and for someone who wants the smallest possible number of keys in front of them and a bunch of toggleable modes. I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back so that when I launch an action in Illustrator I don't have to hold down the fn key, along with whatever other modifier key I may be using to distinguish between a couple other action assigned to that key. I have turned my capslock into command-alt-shift and that helps a lot, I want additional meta keys that I can use for command-shift and command-alt while still having the existing meta keys, not less - this has nine unmarked keys in the default layout, and two of those are probably slated for becoming space and return; my Mac has exactly the same number of meta keys if I count capslock, and dedicated space/return buttons. Their Moonlander's much more sensible, with a baker's dozen of meta keys around each half's keyboard block. Hitting a little one-handed chord almost seems reasonable, compared to all the one-handed stretches I've got in my daily art routine. I'd be super-tempted by this or an Ergodox EZ if they were putting them on sale because they are no longer the new hotness, they might actually see integration into my workflow, but there's absolutely no price difference. Maybe I'll just get baked and spend an hour futzing with this idea I just had to make the f-keys of my Mac's keyboard accessible by having Karabiner translate a chord of (fkey)+(the key to its left) into (fkey). I already have the baked part. And that works on my existing laptop keyboard as well as the 90%-identical Apple wireless board on my desk... EDIT: I did indeed spend an hour swearing at Karabiner's config file and make f(n)+f(-1) into f(n) and it is wonderful, and I am going to make a fn+f(n)=(nothing) rule to train myself to use it. Thanks for the inspiration, keyboard with too few bucky bits!
- RobertRoberts 3y ago> I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back... This is my issue as well. I want a "normal" keyboard, only ergonomic, split, with all the fancy joint happiness that brings. It seems these are impossible to find without some kind of 3d printing and DIY from scratch. I am not able to invest in learning a new keyboarding process because I have to work on too many different computers over a year span that I have no control over, and I don't want my muscle memory to erode because of one special keyboard on my home workstation.
- ChrisLTD 3y agoI'd love a Moonlander with a low profile like this. I have zero interest in having less keys.
- lq0000 3y agoThe layout is eerily similar to one I designed last year [1]. I may be biased, but I'm not sure if it is worth the $365 price point. That being said, it is a bit more refined and has some nice accessories bundled. I may pick one up for comparison. But, just noting that there is a comparable open source design available. ;) [1] https://github.com/eggsworks/egg58 https://github.com/eggsworks/egg58
- rgoulter 3y ago$365 does seem pretty steep. But budget options pretty much demand a variety of skills. DIY boards require soldering, and flashing firmware to the microcontrollers. If a mistake is made when soldering, this can be very difficult to diagnose, and harder to fix. -- Paying someone else to solder is sometimes an option, but can be expensive, too. Even with cheap boards from e.g. AliExpress, you still might have to be familiar with flashing firmware. For someone with more time than money, DIY is a good option. With ZSA, I feel I can at least recommend a reputable brand; I'm not sure I can recommend DIY assembly to most people.
- lq0000 3y agoYeah, I agree full DIY is not for everyone, but SMT assembly is pretty affordable even in small batches these days. I just placed an order for 5x of a 60% unibody ortho board and it came out to roughly $40 a piece before switches, case, etc.
- 1MachineElf 3y agoI considered the price as well. I do love open source designs more than I love the design of the ZSA Voyager (it has too few thumb keys), but in terms of price, it might actually be fair. Milled steel cases for a Corne or Lily58 are only available via group buys that charge $300-400, and they don't come with either keycaps or switches. I believe it's realistic that you could pay the same amount or more for an alternative.
- gwbas1c 3y agoOh gosh this needs a wireless option! (And yes, I see https://www.zsa.io/wireless/ https://www.zsa.io/wireless/) One of my co-workers was mentioning earlier that he wanted "keyboard pants." This caught my eye because he probably would like hanging it from his belt. But... There's a wire! It might be less effort on the vendor's part to source out a simple "wireless USB adaptor" that they can sell as an add-on instead of writing a long-winded "you're wrong" page for people who want wireless.
- anonzzzies 3y agoI want keyboard pants as well. I saw one company having them in the pipeline recently (forgot which) but indeed not wireless which is not great as for things like Vr/ar plugging in will need an extra hub.
- uticus 3y agoAnyone that can speak of low-profile pros/cons vs normal profile?
- mildavw 3y agoI get mild carpal tunnel symptoms when working straight on my Macbook, so I bought a Kinesis Freestyle Pro. The split and tenting are great and do the trick for my wrists but it's got a different layout than the MacBook. And a lot more keys than I need. It's large and a hassle to pack up and take with me. Why does no one build a split keyboard that has the exact same layout as a MacBook? I feel like that would be my holy grail. I don't even care about mechanical switches (I know, blasphemy!)
- ConSeannery 3y agoThe UHK (ultimate hacking keyboard) comes pretty close. I can vouch for its high quality, and it's about as portable as you can get for that many keys without switching to a slim profile like in the OP
- mildavw 3y agoDo you use any of the add-on modules?
- galkk 3y agoI own zsa moonlander (my primary keyboard at home), ergodox ez, dactyl manuform (slightly modified, use at work) and drop preonic. I won't buy this keyboard. It doesn't have anything attractive to me. 2 thumb keys are not enough. It is wired. It is flat. If I wanted something like that, I'd buy some variant of corne, and it would be more suited for my needs and cheaper. It still has qmk, and ZSA's configurator is the best that is there, but the same rehashed idea is of a keyboard is not what I wanted. I really hoped for dactyl-like wireless. But I guess that ZSA is too tied to qmk now, and qmk has issues with wireless.
- rakenodiax 3y agoI'm really tempted by this for travel. My Moonlander setup is annoying to pack up, but I’d love to take my layers on the road
- binaryapparatus 3y agoI am happy zsa/ergodox ez user for many years and was waiting for something like this from zsa, since moonlander wasn't for my hands. My current ergodox layout doesn't use keys that are removed on voyager, so everything plays perfectly. I can vouch for the zsa product quality, since my ergodox didn't hiccup for many years with lots of typing. It is hard to explain to people who never tried qmk layers that more keys doesn't mean better keyboard, having proper layers on home row is many times more ergonomic. One of the things that don't click unless you try I guess.
- penjelly 3y agoi really like the idea of these and this brand is customizable but i cant bring myself to spend 350$+ USD on a keyboard