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Imagine getting paid to deliver something and complaining about actually having to deliver it. I can see the problems they face, but delivering an item...most o
by basisword 3y ago
Imagine getting paid to deliver something and complaining about actually having to deliver it. I can see the problems they face, but delivering an item...most of the way...isn't the solution.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoWhat are customers going to do? Go get it themselves? Clearly not. The potential loss of someone's property they use to deliver isn't worth it, as the article mentions. It also mentions laws enacted to support the delivery workers. > Two Brazilian cities and one state are discussing bills to allow drivers to refuse deliveries at the door — three cities have already approved them. Kick out delivery apps who don't adhere to the law, simple as that. Important to remember that these workers are humans; remember the human.
- userbinator 3y agoImagine a world in which doing the job right (and taking pride in doing so, regardless of how trivial a job it is) is actually the norm. In some parts of some countries, it still is.
- jmondi 3y agoImagine thinking everything is so black and white.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoImagine someone thinking you can spend pride somewhere. This, in my experience, is a dog whistle for "do the shit job regardless of negative costs inflicted on the worker for someone else's benefit." People became accustom to the consumer excess from the abuse gig workers take, and now that workers have some leverage, consumers are clutching their pearls over the loss.
- oh_sigh 3y agoPerhaps the problem is America is economically biased. If your pride in your trivial job brings you respect in your community, then maybe it's worth it, even if you're struggling to make ends meet. If your pride buys you not a modicum of social standing, and barely let's you provide basic essentials for yourself, and you're treated with contempt or as an invisible person by your community, why put pride into the job?
- rootusrootus 3y ago> Perhaps the problem is America is economically biased. I think in this situation the problem is not reading the article.
- oh_sigh 3y agoI did read the article. I was responding to a point someone made, which I took to be about America(rightly or wrongly), not to the article itself. I suspect OP doesn't actually know much about Brazil. While we're talking about missed reading, perhaps you should check out the commenting guidelines.
- pringk02 3y agoSounds like the primary worry is having their bike or other gear stolen, which is reasonable I think. If you can't earn without those things, then you won't want to risk them. The solution seems to be either to get customers to come down, or to eliminate crime. I'd take a guess that having customers come down is a quicker and cheaper solution to implement.
- runnerup 3y agoAnother solution is having a proper bicycle lock. Yes, they’re heavy but I bike around with Kryptonites largest and thickest U-lock, as well as sometimes with a 25-lb 18mm motorcycle chain for the bicycle. I do think the food delivery model should only work for customers willing to pay delivery people $25+/hr, especially considering you’re not just paying what should be a living wage for labor but also renting the capital that the delivery person brings to the job (car, bicycle, locks, etc)
- treis 3y agoThe article says the deal is delivery to the street entrance. They are doing their job.
- simiones 3y agoIf the payment for the service doesn't cover the costs of the service (insurance for a bike and for the loss of work before a new one is found), then what is so surprising? The market is adjusting: if the cost is fixed, then the offer (quality of service) gets reduced.
- malux85 3y agoImagine being in a world where you can wave your finger over some little glass shard, and a hot meal of your choosing is delivered to you. Then imagine complaining that you had to go outside your house to get it. I think the act of getting off the couch and going downstairs before consuming your food is probably a good thing for your health; and the primary reason for all of this is the delivery driver, who is likely living a harder life than you, doesn’t want to lose their livelihood.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y agoThe same logic extends however far you feel like making it extend, though. Imagine being in a world where you can wave your finger over some little glass shard, and a hot meal of your choosing is prepared for you, and all you have to do is go get it. Obviously it's absurd to imagine that anyone would ever want it to also be brought to them.
- malux85 3y agoYes, you can extend the logic forever, however that ignores the obvious and enormous power differential between the two parties. The first has to go down and get their food, a minor inconvienience. The other has to risk losing their delivery vehicle / property when it gets stolen while they are in the building (an enormous, possibly income-destroying inconvienience) I'm saying that the person in the building should maybe have a little gratitude for their position and empathy for the delivery driver
- Justsignedup 3y agoThey are between a rock and a hard place: I think the game StarCitizen had a perfect visualization of their problem. When you try to trade resources, you make say 4% income on the trade. So if you trade say 2-million you can win about 200k or 400k, depending on server state. However the risk is your ship blows up, which could be because of a buggy crash or a server crash. The risk was "is the value I get from the work worth it if a single crash can undo days worth of effort". Same is happening here. They are risking a month of income in order to do a single delivery. However if they leave it by the door "I never got the order" and thus they get penalized. So basically damned if you do, damned if you don't. So they basically said "well if I get penalized ANYWAYS... might as well eat it, because it is equivalent to me" I see zero ethical issues with what is happening. Now if the motorbike was provided by the company, and it gets stolen? Cool, the employee doesn't care, and I assure you, the company would change its policy in a day "nope, you come downstairs!" Edit: The root of the gig economy is that all the risk is shifted to the employee, but none of the benefits. A friend of mine is an HVAC tech, and he gets a company car. If he is about to be late to an appointment because of parking issues... "well, leave the car, we'll pay for the ticket, just get to the job" and he doesn't care. Why? Because the company assumes the risk as they should. He's not a gig worker.
- runnerup 3y agoThanks for writing out the economic model at play here. I needed a better way to communicate this and much of your phrasing works very well.
- robertlagrant 3y ago> So they basically said "well if I get penalized ANYWAYS... might as well eat it, because it is equivalent to me" > I see zero ethical issues with what is happening. I think that's an equivalent economic outcome, but not an equivalent ethical outcome.
- Justsignedup 3y agoThis is fair, but I think it is a minor difference. However the shock-and-awe is driving things to better behaviors so it works. I am sure the delivery worker tried a a lot of different things first.
- ballenf 3y agoThe service that the customer paid for, according to the apps and detailed in the article, is street-level delivery only. So imagine paying for one thing and then extorting an additional service out of the driver because the service gives you more power than the driver. Seems to me the legislation should be focused on the delivery app companies -- force them to pay workers extra if an order requires the extra time and risk of inside delivery. And maybe even cover the cost of anything stolen while they're workers are on the job. They'd very quickly figure out a solution.
- rakoo 3y agoNot everything can be bought. The situation delivery workers are in is not one of choice, of decision over their own conditions of living and working, regarding the number of working hours, the independence, the wages, etc... To blindly expect those people to do whatever you want because you have the money makes you look closer to a Disney Villain than a human being who wants to build a society with these people.
- runnerup 3y ago> because you have the money I think the issue is that maybe the customer doesn’t have the money to make the laborer do what they want. At a much higher wage, the delivery person would be happy to risk their bicycle / other capital.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mistercheph 3y agoImagine paying the lowest bidder to deliver something and then complaining when it's late or in the wrong place. I can see the problems they face, but not hiring a professional to do the job .... isn't the solution.