4 ms·

Evolution. It's programmed into you, the drive to reproduce. And that's a good thing. You won't understand how important and amazing it is until you have you

by 10g1k 3y ago

Evolution. It's programmed into you, the drive to reproduce. And that's a good thing. You won't understand how important and amazing it is until you have your own kid. NOTHING is more important.

tr888 3y ago
I really hate this attitude. It's a condescending and patronising attitude - that men who don't (or can't) have children are less. Are you really saying that absolutely nothing is more important than reproducing? For everyone, in every situation? I sincerely hope not.
- halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
  If you look at things objectively, then yes, it is the most important for the species. If you look at things relatively, then no, there's a lot of factors at play and everyone does not need to have kids (overpopulation concerns, cost of living, personal preferences, etc). That being said, having kids brings so much perspective to a life already lived. You almost live a second (or third, forth, fifth, etc) life vicariously though them, so it's up there in "experiences to have".
  - tr888 3y ago
    It certainly is an experience, it's just not the only experience in life's rich tapestry!
  - hhjinks 3y ago
    Looking at things from the perspective of the species is not equivalent to looking at things objectively. Hell, there is no such thing as an objective measure of life. How can I objectively measure that a life is worth living? What if my child only lives for a few years, in agony due to getting cancer? Was such a short life worth the pain? It's impossible to say.
- _V_ 3y ago
  Is it? I don't see anything patronising in there. It is just a statement. I don't think that people who cannot have children are seen as something less. This is just you wanting to be offended. And yes, in general there is almost nothing more important other than reproduction from the perspective of species. Nothing controversial about that either.
  - tr888 3y ago
    I'm not offended, thanks. I'm just saying that there is a life for everyone, and reproducing is not the most important thing for many. We're not talking objectively about the biology of the human species, really. We're talking about anthropology and what being a human means.
    - _V_ 3y ago
      It seemed like that when you were saying how you hate "that attitude". Nevertheless, that statement does not say that there is not a life for everyone. It merely states that there is an inner drive to have children, see them grow and ultimately take care of you and the world. And this inner drive exists despite many people trying to say otherwise. I mean it might be cool to work for $BIGCORP and build your career. You get cool things like nice car, nice suit... But the $BIGCORP will not hold your hand when you are scared before surgery, it will not help you move something when you are old and most certainly will not wipe your butt when you are too old to get up on your own.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    the offending part is that there should some kind of drive to have your own children or more specifically that the desire to have children is reduced to the need to reproduce. i have children because i love them and want to care for them. i would adopt children for the same reason. i felt no drive to have children be my own. i could not care less if it is me who reproduced instead of someone else. of course if humanity as a whole were in danger because there are not enough kids then i would want to contribute that however i can. but even then that could mean helping someone take care of their kids so they can have more kids.
- anon291 3y ago
  > I really hate this attitude. It's a condescending and patronising attitude - that men who don't (or can't) have children are less. Are you really saying that absolutely nothing is more important than reproducing? For everyone, in every situation? I sincerely hope not. Of course not. Humans (including men) show parental care to increase their young's fitness as well. Human males are not solely obsessed with the mechanics of reproduction (as many animals are). Instead, most men also want to pass something on to their children that will set them up for success, and if you look at it, throughout history, most men were striving for this and most social structures evolved to make this possible.
- 10g1k 3y ago
  Read what I said, not what you imagine due to your fear of whatever. I said it is programmed into us. I did not say anyone is less or more. Although reality is that different people are less or more in various ways.
ssanders82 3y ago
Nah, I've seen the lives of my friends who have kids. I'm happy for them, but my wife and I don't want that life. Sounds like having kids was the right choice for you, that's great, but don't preach at us. We looked at the choices, and made ours. Don't tell me it was the wrong choice, without knowing literally anything about me or my wife. That's pretty patronizing.
- _V_ 3y ago
  If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? I'm asking as a person who does not (yet) have kids myself.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    > If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? Sensitive about it? I don't see where you get that impression from.
  - antasvara 3y ago
    I know a few couples that don't have children by choice. In small talk, they are constantly being asked how their children are doing, do they have any children, are they planning on having kids, etc. Even when it's not meant to be judgmental, those kinds of questions can get old after a while. Then, add in the fact that the line of questioning often is judgmental and you'll frustrate even the most patient person. It doesn't take an overly sensitive person to get frustrated by that. Hell, I got frustrated by the attitudes and questions, and I actually wanted (and now have) kids.
    - _V_ 3y ago
      Well that tends to happen. People usually talk the most about things that are a big part of their life. So if someone wants to connect with you, they will inevitably try in certain point of life to ask if you have kids. Nothing sinister here...
      - 3y ago
dirtybirdnj 3y ago
As someone who does not have children I find it at times difficult to interact with parents specifically because of this mentality. Anything that challenges their authority over the kids (correct parenting, behavior, values etc) can be seen as a direct attack and people will get very rude and offensive. Varying levels of aggressiveness... but as someone on the other side of this there seems to be very little warning or notice that even minor transgressions can cause defensive outbursts. There is NO LIMIT to what people will do for their kids and sometimes in a very corporate way they will use those kids to justify their awful behavior on others. I'm dealing with some burnout related to bad job experiences, something in the way you punctuated your statement just gave me the heebie jeebies. I apologize if this is rude just trying to articulate something I can't quite explain. Family members have kids that are awesome, I have friends that are parents that have managed to remain respectful and tolerant. I think having kids changes your brain in an irrevocable way and sometimes people don't want to admit that.
- Glawen 3y ago
  > Anything that challenges their authority over the kids (correct parenting, behavior, values etc) can be seen as a direct attack and people will get very rude and offensive. I'll ignore parenting advice, even more from people without children. The thing is that everyone is different, and I don't believe that there is a better way or a miraculous method which will make your kids the greatest. Secondly, it is a selfish reason: Being parent is a unique opportunity to grow a human to your values, and hopefully leading to success. I don't see why I should adopt someone else's values.
  - dirtybirdnj 3y ago
    > I don't see why I should adopt someone else's values. Sticking to your values is all well and good but being willfully resistant to introspection is the problem. Assuming your values are always good and never without bias is lying to yourself. Nobody is perfect. My parents tell me VERY convincing stories about how I had a great childhood and they did the best they could. They fucked me up in ways they could have never imagined and at times they just CAN'T understand why what they taught me isn't helpful or useful. Pass on values to your kids but make sure you're not giving them blind spots too. This requires honesty and self evaluation most people are unwilling to engage in.
sparrish 3y ago
I'll agree the drive is within you but that it comes from our creator God. Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth..."
thefz 3y ago
Drive is to mate. That' waaayyy distant from the desire to have kids, which no mammal on earth is biologically wired to feel. It's a cultural/rational thing, such as wanting new shoes.

by 10g1k 3y ago

Evolution. It's programmed into you, the drive to reproduce. And that's a good thing. You won't understand how important and amazing it is until you have your own kid. NOTHING is more important.

tr888 3y ago

I really hate this attitude. It's a condescending and patronising attitude - that men who don't (or can't) have children are less. Are you really saying that absolutely nothing is more important than reproducing? For everyone, in every situation? I sincerely hope not.

halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
If you look at things objectively, then yes, it is the most important for the species. If you look at things relatively, then no, there's a lot of factors at play and everyone does not need to have kids (overpopulation concerns, cost of living, personal preferences, etc). That being said, having kids brings so much perspective to a life already lived. You almost live a second (or third, forth, fifth, etc) life vicariously though them, so it's up there in "experiences to have".
- tr888 3y ago
  It certainly is an experience, it's just not the only experience in life's rich tapestry!
- hhjinks 3y ago
  Looking at things from the perspective of the species is not equivalent to looking at things objectively. Hell, there is no such thing as an objective measure of life. How can I objectively measure that a life is worth living? What if my child only lives for a few years, in agony due to getting cancer? Was such a short life worth the pain? It's impossible to say.
_V_ 3y ago
Is it? I don't see anything patronising in there. It is just a statement. I don't think that people who cannot have children are seen as something less. This is just you wanting to be offended. And yes, in general there is almost nothing more important other than reproduction from the perspective of species. Nothing controversial about that either.
- tr888 3y ago
  I'm not offended, thanks. I'm just saying that there is a life for everyone, and reproducing is not the most important thing for many. We're not talking objectively about the biology of the human species, really. We're talking about anthropology and what being a human means.
  - _V_ 3y ago
    It seemed like that when you were saying how you hate "that attitude". Nevertheless, that statement does not say that there is not a life for everyone. It merely states that there is an inner drive to have children, see them grow and ultimately take care of you and the world. And this inner drive exists despite many people trying to say otherwise. I mean it might be cool to work for $BIGCORP and build your career. You get cool things like nice car, nice suit... But the $BIGCORP will not hold your hand when you are scared before surgery, it will not help you move something when you are old and most certainly will not wipe your butt when you are too old to get up on your own.
- em-bee 3y ago
  the offending part is that there should some kind of drive to have your own children or more specifically that the desire to have children is reduced to the need to reproduce. i have children because i love them and want to care for them. i would adopt children for the same reason. i felt no drive to have children be my own. i could not care less if it is me who reproduced instead of someone else. of course if humanity as a whole were in danger because there are not enough kids then i would want to contribute that however i can. but even then that could mean helping someone take care of their kids so they can have more kids.
anon291 3y ago
> I really hate this attitude. It's a condescending and patronising attitude - that men who don't (or can't) have children are less. Are you really saying that absolutely nothing is more important than reproducing? For everyone, in every situation? I sincerely hope not. Of course not. Humans (including men) show parental care to increase their young's fitness as well. Human males are not solely obsessed with the mechanics of reproduction (as many animals are). Instead, most men also want to pass something on to their children that will set them up for success, and if you look at it, throughout history, most men were striving for this and most social structures evolved to make this possible.
10g1k 3y ago
Read what I said, not what you imagine due to your fear of whatever. I said it is programmed into us. I did not say anyone is less or more. Although reality is that different people are less or more in various ways.

ssanders82 3y ago

Nah, I've seen the lives of my friends who have kids. I'm happy for them, but my wife and I don't want that life. Sounds like having kids was the right choice for you, that's great, but don't preach at us. We looked at the choices, and made ours. Don't tell me it was the wrong choice, without knowing literally anything about me or my wife. That's pretty patronizing.

_V_ 3y ago
If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? I'm asking as a person who does not (yet) have kids myself.
- flangola7 3y ago
  > If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? Sensitive about it? I don't see where you get that impression from.
- antasvara 3y ago
  I know a few couples that don't have children by choice. In small talk, they are constantly being asked how their children are doing, do they have any children, are they planning on having kids, etc. Even when it's not meant to be judgmental, those kinds of questions can get old after a while. Then, add in the fact that the line of questioning often is judgmental and you'll frustrate even the most patient person. It doesn't take an overly sensitive person to get frustrated by that. Hell, I got frustrated by the attitudes and questions, and I actually wanted (and now have) kids.
  - _V_ 3y ago
    Well that tends to happen. People usually talk the most about things that are a big part of their life. So if someone wants to connect with you, they will inevitably try in certain point of life to ask if you have kids. Nothing sinister here...
    - 3y ago

dirtybirdnj 3y ago

As someone who does not have children I find it at times difficult to interact with parents specifically because of this mentality. Anything that challenges their authority over the kids (correct parenting, behavior, values etc) can be seen as a direct attack and people will get very rude and offensive. Varying levels of aggressiveness... but as someone on the other side of this there seems to be very little warning or notice that even minor transgressions can cause defensive outbursts. There is NO LIMIT to what people will do for their kids and sometimes in a very corporate way they will use those kids to justify their awful behavior on others. I'm dealing with some burnout related to bad job experiences, something in the way you punctuated your statement just gave me the heebie jeebies. I apologize if this is rude just trying to articulate something I can't quite explain. Family members have kids that are awesome, I have friends that are parents that have managed to remain respectful and tolerant. I think having kids changes your brain in an irrevocable way and sometimes people don't want to admit that.

Glawen 3y ago
> Anything that challenges their authority over the kids (correct parenting, behavior, values etc) can be seen as a direct attack and people will get very rude and offensive. I'll ignore parenting advice, even more from people without children. The thing is that everyone is different, and I don't believe that there is a better way or a miraculous method which will make your kids the greatest. Secondly, it is a selfish reason: Being parent is a unique opportunity to grow a human to your values, and hopefully leading to success. I don't see why I should adopt someone else's values.
- dirtybirdnj 3y ago
  > I don't see why I should adopt someone else's values. Sticking to your values is all well and good but being willfully resistant to introspection is the problem. Assuming your values are always good and never without bias is lying to yourself. Nobody is perfect. My parents tell me VERY convincing stories about how I had a great childhood and they did the best they could. They fucked me up in ways they could have never imagined and at times they just CAN'T understand why what they taught me isn't helpful or useful. Pass on values to your kids but make sure you're not giving them blind spots too. This requires honesty and self evaluation most people are unwilling to engage in.

sparrish 3y ago

I'll agree the drive is within you but that it comes from our creator God. Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth..."

thefz 3y ago

Drive is to mate. That' waaayyy distant from the desire to have kids, which no mammal on earth is biologically wired to feel. It's a cultural/rational thing, such as wanting new shoes.