10 ms·

I don't think Pentax is sticking to SLR because they've got some very special ideas. I think it's just pragmatic. Pentax K has a flange distance of 45 mm (http

I don't think Pentax is sticking to SLR because they've got some very special ideas. I think it's just pragmatic. Pentax K has a flange distance of 45 mm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance). This puts Pentax in a tricky position. Making a mirrorless camera is nearly pointless if they want to keep their current lenses. And they're already a niche player with barely any adoption. Their options would be releasing a fat mirrorless camera, providing an adapter and creating a new lens mount, or adopting an existing lens mount. All of these kind of suck, and would risk losing market share. The easiest option seems to just keep going.

10729287 3y ago
They also don't have the money to R&D for a mirrorless camera in such an already competitive landscape dominated by AF and video high level performance. They could only shine in a niche market, like SIGMA is trying with their fp and sd camera (Foveon triple layer sensor)... and DSLR seems to be a safer market for Pentax with huge heritage and strong fan base. The demand for Optical viewfinder in EVF times is there, and will still probably be way higher in the next years when they'll be the only one to care as Nikon and Canon already told they won't release any lens or body anymore with the DSLR technology.
- chongli 3y ago
  Yeah. Personally, I would never buy a mirrorless camera for still photography (I hate EVFs). I have thought about getting back into photography and most likely I would pick up an old Leica M3. I'm quite happy that film and chemicals have recently become more available again, as film photography has begun to see a resurgence.
  - 10729287 3y ago
    Film and chemicals more available again ? They've never been hard to get, at least here in France. They are just WAY more expensive now as they are popular amongst younger photographers who don't mind over paying common vintage cameras and 30euros for 36 pictures to be shot/developped/scanned.
  - gswdh 3y ago
    If you want a good finder for still work, you’re much better off with an SLR such as the Nikon F3. The M3 is a stunning camera but it’s usability is very low for anything but some casual stuff. People like them for the prestige.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Anything Nikon from the F3 onwards, F4's seem to be a tad cheaper, is a good choice. Great cameras, hell the F4 was revolutionary at its time, and they work with all F-mount lenses. As do all Nikon DSLRs, and those lenses, especially some manual focus ones, are quite cheap despite being optically marvelous. Same goes for Canon, but there lens compatability for older models is more limited. Added added benefit: The F4 works with G-versionen lenses, if memory works well, and those work great with the z-mount lenses using the adaptor. Additional added benefit: Fujifilm cameras work great with f-mount and an adapter as well. Invest in lenses, not cameras.
    - chongli 3y ago
      That loses the flange focal distance advantage. SLRs are great for making professional photographs but they are quite bulky. Leica M rangefinders are nice and compact with some very small, yet fast, lenses.
4ad 3y ago
The existing Pentax lenses are just rebadged Tamron lenses. Tamron and Sigma make a full suite of mirrorless lenses. Of course, they could also use the L-mount.
- neogodless 3y ago
  I tried researching this claim and found forums[0] discussing that in some cases Pentax has sold Tamron designed lenses but it sounds like it's far from all Pentax K-Mount lenses. Also worth reading this article and the comments[1]. Sounds like all * lenses are in-house Ricoh designs, and just a few select lenses have been partnerships with Tamron. Do you have sources? [0] https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/401959-third-party-original-manufacturer-branded-lens-questions.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discu... [1] https://fstoppers.com/originals/comments-suggest-newly-announced-pentax-fa-85mm-f14-just-rehoused-sigma-lens-468065 https://fstoppers.com/originals/comments-suggest-newly-annou...
- dale_glass 3y ago
  What I mean is that if Pentax changes mounts, they run the risk of upsetting their current very hardcore user base that now owns a bunch of lenses nobody else will want that much. If they adopt an existing mount, they risk becoming less distinctive. They become an alternative body in some pre-existing lens ecosystem. And since the flange distance is so large, a K mirrorless will be rather fat and compare unfavorably to the existing mirrorless market. It'll also suffer from all the downsides of a long flange distance, like the difficulty of making good wide angle lenses. However you slice it, they're in a tricky position.
- hcarvalhoalves 3y ago
  Only a few are Tamron designs. Most Pentax branded lenses, including the most iconic, are exclusive designs: the FA Limited, the DA Limited, the DFA 100mm Macro, the * star lenses.
sanitycheck 3y ago
They made a mirrorless K-mount camera, the K-01, 10-11 years ago. Got some moderately well-known designer to make a moderately trendy looking thing. It bombed. They also attempted a new mirrorless series ("Q") but I think it only got a little bit of traction even in Japan. Some bad decisions and wrong compromises there, though I did meet a woman who loved her pink one.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  I remember the K-01, I didn't care for it. For me, a camera is a tool, not a fashion accessory. I couldn't care less that some famous guy designed it. Reviews said it was uncomfortable and for me that was that. The Q didn't interest me because of its small sensor.
  - sanitycheck 3y ago
    Agree 100%. All I'm saying is that they've dabbled with these things before, albeit without any real success. It is of course possible to make a fashion accessory that is also a tool, but then you have a Leica and I can't afford one!
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Leica is pretty much done as a professional camera company, it's a luxury brand along the lines of Rolex. Professionals overwhelmingly use Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji in that order, Leica has dropped to sub 1% of the pro market. And compared to say Hasselblad they don't have any USPs that would make someone choose their brand other than the brand itself. Interestingly: amateurs use Leica 2x as much as professionals do, because the myth of the expensive camera making better pictures is still alive and well.
      - dale_glass 3y ago
        I remember back when Leica made their own monochrome digital camera (this idea isn't new, Leica did this in 2012). Half their ad was showing off how they make the bag for the thing.
ginko 3y ago
The neat thing about Pentax K mount is that it's backwards compatible with M42 screw-mount lenses which opens up an enormous ecosystem of classic lenses.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  Yeah, but that's a very niche interest. Those don't autofocus, don't manually focus well unless you mod the camera with a split prism, and are optically not great unless you're into it for the swirly bokeh or such niche things. Certainly there's niche appeal for it, but not mass appeal by any means.
  - RobotToaster 3y ago
    >don't manually focus well unless you mod the camera with a split prism You can use electronic focus confirmation with MF lenses.
  - flipthefrog 3y ago
    You're obviously thinking of Helios 44 and other Russian lenses, but there are also many outstanding m42 lenses, including Pentax Takumars.
    - sudosysgen 3y ago
      I have a 50 1.4 takumar, it's optically not great by today's standards. You really do only buy it for the look and feel (or because it's so cheap)
- rqtwteye 3y ago
  They are as compatible with M42 as is my Sony A7 with an adapter.
formerly_proven 3y ago
Pentax is probably the most conservative Japanese camera maker still around (despite belonging to the Zeiss lineage along with Nikon and Yashica, not the Leitz line).
nullc 3y ago
They could make a mirrorless camera with a new short flange mount and include an adapter to the k-flange. They could include (or just sell) adapters to other popular mounts. For something like a oddball monochrome camera, being able to use it with assorted odds lenses would be a big selling point.
jojobas 3y ago
That's not too far off Canon EF (44mm) and less than Nikon F/AF (46.5mm). Their mirrorless cameras don't use these though and require an adapter at best.
dingaling 3y ago
A 'fat' mirrorless camera wouldn't be too much of an issue; many people find skinny MILCs too small to hold, and Canon and Nikon both still produce full-grip MILCs at the top of their ranges.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Seriously my Olympus did not even begin to feel usable until I had bought and installed both optional grips. And I have small hands.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    My daughter has a pink, what else, Nikon 1. Fun little camera, and image quality is great. A pitty that the orginal Nikon 1 lenses, while being great optically, are flimsy mechanically. Well, G-series Nikkors work just fine with an adaptor, and she likes the thing with a cheap 18-55 DX kit lense on it. Only downside, the camera is bigger. It also a great camera, with small sensor to give some additional reach over DX. And the sight of it with a 600 Novoflex attached to it is something to behold! Or a 300 mm with a 2x TC. Tripod mandatory!
signaru 3y ago
My favorite camera + lens in use is a micro 4/3 mirrorless body with a pentax lens adapted with an off brand "speed booster" making my lens an F/1 in principle. Filling in the gap where the mirror was supposed to be is an easy problem, making it fun to repurpose lenses designed for SLRs on mirrorless cameras. There are even passive spacer adapters that just fill the flange distance. It can be an option for Pentax to design these adapters with the autofocus also working.
- sbarre 3y ago
  I also have a micro 4/3 camera with an adapter and a bunch of vintage (70s) Pentax lenses from the Super Takumar range (M42 screw mount). You can get them off eBay for under 100$ each in almost-new condition, and they're super fun to play with..
andjd 3y ago
I agree that owning the DSLR niche is a good strategy for Pentax. Ricoh hasn't given them the budget to make digital autofocus systems that are competitive with the other big brands, and it's likely hard to justify doing so with their market share. There's an interesting world where Ricoh sells Pentax to Samsung or Apple or Google. Taking cutting edge computational photography from smartphones and applying it to a full-size camera with the sensors and optics to match could be really compelling. Pentax has good brand value and the optical expertise to make this credible to photographers, and there'd be growth potential in just taking market share from other players.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Maybe there is a market for smartphone filters in full blown DSLRs. Maybe not. I for sure want my DSLRs to give me a clean RAW file if I want it. And my phone, too. Which my Pixel does.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    Sure. But isn't "computational photography" also all the "smarts" around taking the picture? Like subject detection for focus tracking. Or trying to "understand" the scene and figure that since the subject moves, it's better to up the ISO and the shutter speed because the stabilizer won't help you. Or figure that some 300-year-old building won't start moving just as you take the picture, so it can do the reverse and take advantage of the stabilizer.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Auto-exposure exists since the 90 in SLRs, auto-ISO since the first DSLRs. The result is still a normal photo, either on undeveloped film or, if you want so, a RAW file. Kind of the same goes for Auto-Focus with subject and face recognition and such. Still, the result is, ideally, well exposed and focused picture. Computational photography is everything the camera does between the RAW image data (which is itself already processed sensor data) and the JPEG it creates. Thisbis as well as old as the first DSLRs, and such far from all the post-processing e.g. smart phones do. And the latter so, well, I am not sure how much it has to do with photography when information coming from sources other than the RAW data is used. Or when a ton of filters, auto-pseudo-HDR and focus stacking is automatically applied.
deeesstoronto 3y ago
How is this different from other manufacturers? Focal distances are pretty similar between all of these for SLR versus mirrorless. Canon offers adapters for their mirrorless cameras, both EF-M and RF. https://www.canon.ca/en/products/Lenses/Mount-Adapters https://www.canon.ca/en/products/Lenses/Mount-Adapters Nikon has the f to z adapter: https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/product/lens-mount-adapter/mount-adapter-ftz.html https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/product/lens-mount-adapte... Sony has an A to E adapter https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/imaging-accessories/imaging-lens-accessories/p/laea5 https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/imaging-accessories/ima...

10729287 3y ago

They also don't have the money to R&D for a mirrorless camera in such an already competitive landscape dominated by AF and video high level performance. They could only shine in a niche market, like SIGMA is trying with their fp and sd camera (Foveon triple layer sensor)... and DSLR seems to be a safer market for Pentax with huge heritage and strong fan base. The demand for Optical viewfinder in EVF times is there, and will still probably be way higher in the next years when they'll be the only one to care as Nikon and Canon already told they won't release any lens or body anymore with the DSLR technology.

chongli 3y ago
Yeah. Personally, I would never buy a mirrorless camera for still photography (I hate EVFs). I have thought about getting back into photography and most likely I would pick up an old Leica M3. I'm quite happy that film and chemicals have recently become more available again, as film photography has begun to see a resurgence.
- 10729287 3y ago
  Film and chemicals more available again ? They've never been hard to get, at least here in France. They are just WAY more expensive now as they are popular amongst younger photographers who don't mind over paying common vintage cameras and 30euros for 36 pictures to be shot/developped/scanned.
- gswdh 3y ago
  If you want a good finder for still work, you’re much better off with an SLR such as the Nikon F3. The M3 is a stunning camera but it’s usability is very low for anything but some casual stuff. People like them for the prestige.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Anything Nikon from the F3 onwards, F4's seem to be a tad cheaper, is a good choice. Great cameras, hell the F4 was revolutionary at its time, and they work with all F-mount lenses. As do all Nikon DSLRs, and those lenses, especially some manual focus ones, are quite cheap despite being optically marvelous. Same goes for Canon, but there lens compatability for older models is more limited. Added added benefit: The F4 works with G-versionen lenses, if memory works well, and those work great with the z-mount lenses using the adaptor. Additional added benefit: Fujifilm cameras work great with f-mount and an adapter as well. Invest in lenses, not cameras.
  - chongli 3y ago
    That loses the flange focal distance advantage. SLRs are great for making professional photographs but they are quite bulky. Leica M rangefinders are nice and compact with some very small, yet fast, lenses.

4ad 3y ago

The existing Pentax lenses are just rebadged Tamron lenses. Tamron and Sigma make a full suite of mirrorless lenses. Of course, they could also use the L-mount.

neogodless 3y ago
I tried researching this claim and found forums[0] discussing that in some cases Pentax has sold Tamron designed lenses but it sounds like it's far from all Pentax K-Mount lenses. Also worth reading this article and the comments[1]. Sounds like all * lenses are in-house Ricoh designs, and just a few select lenses have been partnerships with Tamron. Do you have sources? [0] https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/401959-third-party-original-manufacturer-branded-lens-questions.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discu... [1] https://fstoppers.com/originals/comments-suggest-newly-announced-pentax-fa-85mm-f14-just-rehoused-sigma-lens-468065 https://fstoppers.com/originals/comments-suggest-newly-annou...
dale_glass 3y ago
What I mean is that if Pentax changes mounts, they run the risk of upsetting their current very hardcore user base that now owns a bunch of lenses nobody else will want that much. If they adopt an existing mount, they risk becoming less distinctive. They become an alternative body in some pre-existing lens ecosystem. And since the flange distance is so large, a K mirrorless will be rather fat and compare unfavorably to the existing mirrorless market. It'll also suffer from all the downsides of a long flange distance, like the difficulty of making good wide angle lenses. However you slice it, they're in a tricky position.
hcarvalhoalves 3y ago
Only a few are Tamron designs. Most Pentax branded lenses, including the most iconic, are exclusive designs: the FA Limited, the DA Limited, the DFA 100mm Macro, the * star lenses.

sanitycheck 3y ago

They made a mirrorless K-mount camera, the K-01, 10-11 years ago. Got some moderately well-known designer to make a moderately trendy looking thing. It bombed. They also attempted a new mirrorless series ("Q") but I think it only got a little bit of traction even in Japan. Some bad decisions and wrong compromises there, though I did meet a woman who loved her pink one.

dale_glass 3y ago
I remember the K-01, I didn't care for it. For me, a camera is a tool, not a fashion accessory. I couldn't care less that some famous guy designed it. Reviews said it was uncomfortable and for me that was that. The Q didn't interest me because of its small sensor.
- sanitycheck 3y ago
  Agree 100%. All I'm saying is that they've dabbled with these things before, albeit without any real success. It is of course possible to make a fashion accessory that is also a tool, but then you have a Leica and I can't afford one!
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Leica is pretty much done as a professional camera company, it's a luxury brand along the lines of Rolex. Professionals overwhelmingly use Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji in that order, Leica has dropped to sub 1% of the pro market. And compared to say Hasselblad they don't have any USPs that would make someone choose their brand other than the brand itself. Interestingly: amateurs use Leica 2x as much as professionals do, because the myth of the expensive camera making better pictures is still alive and well.
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      I remember back when Leica made their own monochrome digital camera (this idea isn't new, Leica did this in 2012). Half their ad was showing off how they make the bag for the thing.

ginko 3y ago

The neat thing about Pentax K mount is that it's backwards compatible with M42 screw-mount lenses which opens up an enormous ecosystem of classic lenses.

dale_glass 3y ago
Yeah, but that's a very niche interest. Those don't autofocus, don't manually focus well unless you mod the camera with a split prism, and are optically not great unless you're into it for the swirly bokeh or such niche things. Certainly there's niche appeal for it, but not mass appeal by any means.
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  >don't manually focus well unless you mod the camera with a split prism You can use electronic focus confirmation with MF lenses.
- flipthefrog 3y ago
  You're obviously thinking of Helios 44 and other Russian lenses, but there are also many outstanding m42 lenses, including Pentax Takumars.
  - sudosysgen 3y ago
    I have a 50 1.4 takumar, it's optically not great by today's standards. You really do only buy it for the look and feel (or because it's so cheap)
rqtwteye 3y ago
They are as compatible with M42 as is my Sony A7 with an adapter.

formerly_proven 3y ago

Pentax is probably the most conservative Japanese camera maker still around (despite belonging to the Zeiss lineage along with Nikon and Yashica, not the Leitz line).

nullc 3y ago

They could make a mirrorless camera with a new short flange mount and include an adapter to the k-flange. They could include (or just sell) adapters to other popular mounts. For something like a oddball monochrome camera, being able to use it with assorted odds lenses would be a big selling point.

jojobas 3y ago

That's not too far off Canon EF (44mm) and less than Nikon F/AF (46.5mm). Their mirrorless cameras don't use these though and require an adapter at best.

dingaling 3y ago

A 'fat' mirrorless camera wouldn't be too much of an issue; many people find skinny MILCs too small to hold, and Canon and Nikon both still produce full-grip MILCs at the top of their ranges.

jeffbee 3y ago
Seriously my Olympus did not even begin to feel usable until I had bought and installed both optional grips. And I have small hands.
- hef19898 3y ago
  My daughter has a pink, what else, Nikon 1. Fun little camera, and image quality is great. A pitty that the orginal Nikon 1 lenses, while being great optically, are flimsy mechanically. Well, G-series Nikkors work just fine with an adaptor, and she likes the thing with a cheap 18-55 DX kit lense on it. Only downside, the camera is bigger. It also a great camera, with small sensor to give some additional reach over DX. And the sight of it with a 600 Novoflex attached to it is something to behold! Or a 300 mm with a 2x TC. Tripod mandatory!

signaru 3y ago

My favorite camera + lens in use is a micro 4/3 mirrorless body with a pentax lens adapted with an off brand "speed booster" making my lens an F/1 in principle. Filling in the gap where the mirror was supposed to be is an easy problem, making it fun to repurpose lenses designed for SLRs on mirrorless cameras. There are even passive spacer adapters that just fill the flange distance. It can be an option for Pentax to design these adapters with the autofocus also working.

sbarre 3y ago
I also have a micro 4/3 camera with an adapter and a bunch of vintage (70s) Pentax lenses from the Super Takumar range (M42 screw mount). You can get them off eBay for under 100$ each in almost-new condition, and they're super fun to play with..

andjd 3y ago

I agree that owning the DSLR niche is a good strategy for Pentax. Ricoh hasn't given them the budget to make digital autofocus systems that are competitive with the other big brands, and it's likely hard to justify doing so with their market share. There's an interesting world where Ricoh sells Pentax to Samsung or Apple or Google. Taking cutting edge computational photography from smartphones and applying it to a full-size camera with the sensors and optics to match could be really compelling. Pentax has good brand value and the optical expertise to make this credible to photographers, and there'd be growth potential in just taking market share from other players.

hef19898 3y ago
Maybe there is a market for smartphone filters in full blown DSLRs. Maybe not. I for sure want my DSLRs to give me a clean RAW file if I want it. And my phone, too. Which my Pixel does.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  Sure. But isn't "computational photography" also all the "smarts" around taking the picture? Like subject detection for focus tracking. Or trying to "understand" the scene and figure that since the subject moves, it's better to up the ISO and the shutter speed because the stabilizer won't help you. Or figure that some 300-year-old building won't start moving just as you take the picture, so it can do the reverse and take advantage of the stabilizer.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Auto-exposure exists since the 90 in SLRs, auto-ISO since the first DSLRs. The result is still a normal photo, either on undeveloped film or, if you want so, a RAW file. Kind of the same goes for Auto-Focus with subject and face recognition and such. Still, the result is, ideally, well exposed and focused picture. Computational photography is everything the camera does between the RAW image data (which is itself already processed sensor data) and the JPEG it creates. Thisbis as well as old as the first DSLRs, and such far from all the post-processing e.g. smart phones do. And the latter so, well, I am not sure how much it has to do with photography when information coming from sources other than the RAW data is used. Or when a ton of filters, auto-pseudo-HDR and focus stacking is automatically applied.

deeesstoronto 3y ago

How is this different from other manufacturers? Focal distances are pretty similar between all of these for SLR versus mirrorless. Canon offers adapters for their mirrorless cameras, both EF-M and RF. https://www.canon.ca/en/products/Lenses/Mount-Adapters https://www.canon.ca/en/products/Lenses/Mount-Adapters Nikon has the f to z adapter: https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/product/lens-mount-adapter/mount-adapter-ftz.html https://en.nikon.ca/nikon-products/product/lens-mount-adapte... Sony has an A to E adapter https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/imaging-accessories/imaging-lens-accessories/p/laea5 https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/imaging-accessories/ima...