4 ms·

I mean, they can say whatever they want on the site, but the real question is: what does the legislation, regulation, and common law say about this? Has anyone

I mean, they can say whatever they want on the site, but the real question is: what does the legislation, regulation, and common law say about this? Has anyone successfully sued a project? Is there case law?

jacquesm 3y ago
Regret isn't a reason for a restatement of the terms of agreement. If you think that you are going to need a lawyer or sue someone because you backed a Kickstarter short of being fraudulent I suggest you don't ever use Kickstarter at all. That's so against the spirit of what the whole thing is about.
Guvante 3y ago
Most Kickstarter backers out in $50 or less. The filing fee for small claims court is usually $20 and that assumes you live near each other. They are usually judgement proof but that isn't uncommon in other fields too.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  The thing that allows Kickstarter to work in the first place is that it uses low risk on the one side (the backers) to enable the initiators to engage in much higher risk ventures than they would ever be able to do on their own. If the backers 'back out' because they see that risk as too high retrospectively they should not have engaged in the first place. Because you are out only $50 or less. But collectively you've enabled someone to take on a risk that they could not have carried by themselves, as a backer you underwrite that risk. This is such a fundamental component of crowdsourcing that I find it bizarre that it needs to be spelled out like this. Legal recourse should be reserved for outright fraud, no less.
  - verve_rat 3y ago
    Yes, that is the theory behind crowdsourcing, but what is the actual legal reality? We often don't know that until it has been tested in a court.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      You normally speaking shouldn't care. But there have actually been Kickstarter cases brought to court that were resolved in the favor of the backers. Examples: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/feds-take-first-action-against-a-failed-kickstarter-with-112k-judgment/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/feds-take-first-... (most likely fraud) https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/32334/court-orders-fines-payments-kickstarter-case https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/32334/court-orders-fines... (seems to have been either bad timing or someone that needed the court to get off their ass) https://massivelyop.com/2022/10/12/chronicles-of-elyria-dev-celebrates-dismissal-of-backer-lawsuit-as-next-phase-of-heros-journey/ https://massivelyop.com/2022/10/12/chronicles-of-elyria-dev-... (many millions of $, case dismissed) So it's a bit of a toss-up. Especially the second is weird because the state is awarded $54K versus a pittance to the backers and apparently the backers did in fact receive their stuff. All in all, other than outright fraud I don't see much in terms of real world recourse here, and even then you have to wonder if you shouldn't just write it off. The last one is interesting: by handing a lot of $ to a project initiator you are also effectively funding them from defending from you suing them...

jacquesm 3y ago

Regret isn't a reason for a restatement of the terms of agreement. If you think that you are going to need a lawyer or sue someone because you backed a Kickstarter short of being fraudulent I suggest you don't ever use Kickstarter at all. That's so against the spirit of what the whole thing is about.

Guvante 3y ago

Most Kickstarter backers out in $50 or less. The filing fee for small claims court is usually $20 and that assumes you live near each other. They are usually judgement proof but that isn't uncommon in other fields too.

jacquesm 3y ago
The thing that allows Kickstarter to work in the first place is that it uses low risk on the one side (the backers) to enable the initiators to engage in much higher risk ventures than they would ever be able to do on their own. If the backers 'back out' because they see that risk as too high retrospectively they should not have engaged in the first place. Because you are out only $50 or less. But collectively you've enabled someone to take on a risk that they could not have carried by themselves, as a backer you underwrite that risk. This is such a fundamental component of crowdsourcing that I find it bizarre that it needs to be spelled out like this. Legal recourse should be reserved for outright fraud, no less.
- verve_rat 3y ago
  Yes, that is the theory behind crowdsourcing, but what is the actual legal reality? We often don't know that until it has been tested in a court.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    You normally speaking shouldn't care. But there have actually been Kickstarter cases brought to court that were resolved in the favor of the backers. Examples: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/feds-take-first-action-against-a-failed-kickstarter-with-112k-judgment/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/feds-take-first-... (most likely fraud) https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/32334/court-orders-fines-payments-kickstarter-case https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/32334/court-orders-fines... (seems to have been either bad timing or someone that needed the court to get off their ass) https://massivelyop.com/2022/10/12/chronicles-of-elyria-dev-celebrates-dismissal-of-backer-lawsuit-as-next-phase-of-heros-journey/ https://massivelyop.com/2022/10/12/chronicles-of-elyria-dev-... (many millions of $, case dismissed) So it's a bit of a toss-up. Especially the second is weird because the state is awarded $54K versus a pittance to the backers and apparently the backers did in fact receive their stuff. All in all, other than outright fraud I don't see much in terms of real world recourse here, and even then you have to wonder if you shouldn't just write it off. The last one is interesting: by handing a lot of $ to a project initiator you are also effectively funding them from defending from you suing them...