3 ms·

"Registered to a different person" -- for the most part, guns are not registered in the USA. Was this in a state or city with a registry for AR-15s? "Loaded st

"Registered to a different person" -- for the most part, guns are not registered in the USA. Was this in a state or city with a registry for AR-15s? "Loaded straight into fairly skinny jeans without checking the safety." -- Glocks do not have safeties. The idea with most newer striker-fired pistols, like the Glock, is that the gun goes in a hard-sided (molded nylon or kydex) holster. If it's not in the holster, it's ready to fire. If that is not safe in the situation you are in, put it back in the holster. Rifles, shotguns, &c, are never holstered; so if it is time to fire the weapon, you deactivate the safety; otherwise, it is left on safe. Because pistols have the extra step of being holstered, it turns out be work well in practice not to have the intermediate unholstered-but-safe step.

avidiax 3y ago
> "Registered to a different person" -- for the most part, guns are not registered in the USA. Was this in a state or city with a registry for AR-15s? Handguns are registered to a tiny degree. The NICS checks records may be kept only on paper, and are kept by the gun dealer until they close business. Then the BATFE or a related govt. office gets them. By order of congress, this office is not allowed to computerize.
- solidsnack9000 3y ago
  In some states and in some cities, handguns are registered; but in most states, they are not registered to any degree. A registry connects a particular gun -- a particular serial number -- to a particular person. A NICS check doesn't do that -- it's a criminal background check. Just because you have a NICS check, it doesn't mean you bought any particular gun. You could pass the background check and then decide you don't want the gun after all. You may be referring to a Form 4473 -- the DRoS (Dealer Record of Sale) -- which does record which person received which gun (with serial number) -- and all licensed dealers maintain these records, for all guns they sell (not just handguns). These records form a sort of a search tree, since the manufacturer records which wholesaler the serial number went to the, the wholesaler records the retailer and the retailer records the end user. These records are useful in regulating the traffic in arms; but the decentralized nature of them means that the government can not go on fishing expeditions -- can not just go out and query the database and see what looks interesting today. Here's how the DRoS are used in regulating the arms trade. Say police come across a big box of guns from Colt. They can go to Colt with a suitable warrant and say, hey, where did these go to? And then go to the wholesaler, on down the tree. It turns out this information is often sufficient to localize shady gun dealers who are trying to sell to the mob, the cartels, &c.
- Aloha 3y ago
  Cash person to person transfers are either still currently legal, or were currently legal until very recently.
  - solidsnack9000 3y ago
    Gifts and other private transfers, including occasional cash transfers, are still legal in most states and will be legal for the foreseeable future. However, some states have banned private transfers of handguns or of all guns. This means, in practice, that people must perform the transfer through licensed dealers. It is illegal in the United States to be in the firearms business without a license. It is legal for private people to transfer firearms to one another without filling out a 4473. So on the one hand, we have the business of selling guns and filling out 4473s and maintaining records according to the ATF's rules, and the majority of transfers of guns take place according to these rules; and on the other, we have people who give a gun to their son or daughter as a birthday present, or sell a few guns they no longer use. In the middle, we have a grey area -- people who sell a few guns every year, &c. Occasionally, people in the grey area get caught; and it's not a good place to be in; so people who occasionally sell guns but have no interest in being in the firearms business will actually transfer through a licensed dealer (the seller transfers to the dealer, who then transfers to the buyer, charging a nominal fee). For example, when people sell guns on GunBroker.com, they almost always intermediate the transaction through a licensed dealer. This is what people are talking about when they say "universal background checks" and "the gun show loophole". Now, "the gun show loophole" seems like a completely ridiculous idea. I do not see how progressives can believe it exists; and I do not see how this could possibly occur with any frequency. The ATF knows where the gun shows are. Maybe progressives think the ATF is not going to the gun shows looking for people selling guns without a license? I don't think anyone who knows anything about selling guns believes for one moment that the best place to sell guns illegally is a place, like a gun show, that is literally crawling with cops from agencies at all levels of government (not only to keep an eye on things but also as customers).
    - Aloha 3y ago
      I'm less concerned about any tracking (Being paper records, the 4473 is effectively meaningless as a tracking facility) from the 4473 and more concerned about a background check - I'd be perfectly fine for eliminating person to person transfers between individuals without a state license (CPL/CCW, FOID, etc). Though one of the gripes with NICS is as far as I know it does not fail safe, if a local LE or reporting agency ignores the request or does not process it in a timely manner, the person may get a false pass.
pjc50 3y ago
> "Registered to a different person" -- for the most part, guns are not registered in the USA. Was this in a state or city with a registry for AR-15s? I interpreted this as the cop having simply stolen the guns from their registered owners through some sort of search or seizure process.
- solidsnack9000 3y ago
  There would be no "registered owners" in most jurisdictions.
noduerme 3y ago
My nightly bedside weapon is a Beretta 92 with the safety decocker. I know a lot of people think it's silly to have a safety on that gun, but I want to be awake enough to think about it twice if I wake up in the middle of the night.
- nly 3y ago
  I get night terrors and sleep walk, so I'd likely end up dead of I had a weapon by my bedside.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    You can get a paintball gun or air soft and experiment! Maybe it would help with the sleep terrors, maybe it would result in a rainbow colored cat.
- solidsnack9000 3y ago
  There are some good things about safeties -- service pistols had them for decades. There didn't used to be nylon holsters, after all. Another thing that people do is set up a holster behind the headboard or somewhere else where they know to get at it.
  - diogenes4 3y ago
    I have a friend who has a gun safe under his nightstand—not intended for quick use, but still easy to access.
diogenes4 3y ago
I'm not sure about AR15s, but the serial number on the slide of a handgun is associated at (legal, storefront) purchase with a name and (I think) address. I presumed that was what was implied as registration. I assumed this was true for some part of the AR15 (maybe the receiver?) but I don't actually know for sure. There are loopholes, but there are reasons to prefer a gun that was last purchased under someone else's name, ideally someone you don't know at all. Regardless, the thing I found interesting was the COP's perception of the value of the guns.
- solidsnack9000 3y ago
  This is the form 4473 -- the dealer has a record of all sales that they've made. However, you could certainly sell the gun to someone else, through a different dealer. That doesn't make the old 4473 invalid -- it records a sale that actually occurred -- but it does mean the 4473s are not functionally a registry.

avidiax 3y ago

> "Registered to a different person" -- for the most part, guns are not registered in the USA. Was this in a state or city with a registry for AR-15s? Handguns are registered to a tiny degree. The NICS checks records may be kept only on paper, and are kept by the gun dealer until they close business. Then the BATFE or a related govt. office gets them. By order of congress, this office is not allowed to computerize.

solidsnack9000 3y ago
In some states and in some cities, handguns are registered; but in most states, they are not registered to any degree. A registry connects a particular gun -- a particular serial number -- to a particular person. A NICS check doesn't do that -- it's a criminal background check. Just because you have a NICS check, it doesn't mean you bought any particular gun. You could pass the background check and then decide you don't want the gun after all. You may be referring to a Form 4473 -- the DRoS (Dealer Record of Sale) -- which does record which person received which gun (with serial number) -- and all licensed dealers maintain these records, for all guns they sell (not just handguns). These records form a sort of a search tree, since the manufacturer records which wholesaler the serial number went to the, the wholesaler records the retailer and the retailer records the end user. These records are useful in regulating the traffic in arms; but the decentralized nature of them means that the government can not go on fishing expeditions -- can not just go out and query the database and see what looks interesting today. Here's how the DRoS are used in regulating the arms trade. Say police come across a big box of guns from Colt. They can go to Colt with a suitable warrant and say, hey, where did these go to? And then go to the wholesaler, on down the tree. It turns out this information is often sufficient to localize shady gun dealers who are trying to sell to the mob, the cartels, &c.
Aloha 3y ago
Cash person to person transfers are either still currently legal, or were currently legal until very recently.
- solidsnack9000 3y ago
  Gifts and other private transfers, including occasional cash transfers, are still legal in most states and will be legal for the foreseeable future. However, some states have banned private transfers of handguns or of all guns. This means, in practice, that people must perform the transfer through licensed dealers. It is illegal in the United States to be in the firearms business without a license. It is legal for private people to transfer firearms to one another without filling out a 4473. So on the one hand, we have the business of selling guns and filling out 4473s and maintaining records according to the ATF's rules, and the majority of transfers of guns take place according to these rules; and on the other, we have people who give a gun to their son or daughter as a birthday present, or sell a few guns they no longer use. In the middle, we have a grey area -- people who sell a few guns every year, &c. Occasionally, people in the grey area get caught; and it's not a good place to be in; so people who occasionally sell guns but have no interest in being in the firearms business will actually transfer through a licensed dealer (the seller transfers to the dealer, who then transfers to the buyer, charging a nominal fee). For example, when people sell guns on GunBroker.com, they almost always intermediate the transaction through a licensed dealer. This is what people are talking about when they say "universal background checks" and "the gun show loophole". Now, "the gun show loophole" seems like a completely ridiculous idea. I do not see how progressives can believe it exists; and I do not see how this could possibly occur with any frequency. The ATF knows where the gun shows are. Maybe progressives think the ATF is not going to the gun shows looking for people selling guns without a license? I don't think anyone who knows anything about selling guns believes for one moment that the best place to sell guns illegally is a place, like a gun show, that is literally crawling with cops from agencies at all levels of government (not only to keep an eye on things but also as customers).
  - Aloha 3y ago
    I'm less concerned about any tracking (Being paper records, the 4473 is effectively meaningless as a tracking facility) from the 4473 and more concerned about a background check - I'd be perfectly fine for eliminating person to person transfers between individuals without a state license (CPL/CCW, FOID, etc). Though one of the gripes with NICS is as far as I know it does not fail safe, if a local LE or reporting agency ignores the request or does not process it in a timely manner, the person may get a false pass.

pjc50 3y ago

> "Registered to a different person" -- for the most part, guns are not registered in the USA. Was this in a state or city with a registry for AR-15s? I interpreted this as the cop having simply stolen the guns from their registered owners through some sort of search or seizure process.

solidsnack9000 3y ago
There would be no "registered owners" in most jurisdictions.

noduerme 3y ago

My nightly bedside weapon is a Beretta 92 with the safety decocker. I know a lot of people think it's silly to have a safety on that gun, but I want to be awake enough to think about it twice if I wake up in the middle of the night.

nly 3y ago
I get night terrors and sleep walk, so I'd likely end up dead of I had a weapon by my bedside.
- bombcar 3y ago
  You can get a paintball gun or air soft and experiment! Maybe it would help with the sleep terrors, maybe it would result in a rainbow colored cat.
solidsnack9000 3y ago
There are some good things about safeties -- service pistols had them for decades. There didn't used to be nylon holsters, after all. Another thing that people do is set up a holster behind the headboard or somewhere else where they know to get at it.
- diogenes4 3y ago
  I have a friend who has a gun safe under his nightstand—not intended for quick use, but still easy to access.

diogenes4 3y ago

I'm not sure about AR15s, but the serial number on the slide of a handgun is associated at (legal, storefront) purchase with a name and (I think) address. I presumed that was what was implied as registration. I assumed this was true for some part of the AR15 (maybe the receiver?) but I don't actually know for sure. There are loopholes, but there are reasons to prefer a gun that was last purchased under someone else's name, ideally someone you don't know at all. Regardless, the thing I found interesting was the COP's perception of the value of the guns.

solidsnack9000 3y ago
This is the form 4473 -- the dealer has a record of all sales that they've made. However, you could certainly sell the gun to someone else, through a different dealer. That doesn't make the old 4473 invalid -- it records a sale that actually occurred -- but it does mean the 4473s are not functionally a registry.