4 ms·

The most famous persons of every country based on street names (13.000 names)

12 points by molteanu 3y ago

Helmut10001 3y ago
Ranked fourth for Germany, a nationalist and likely an anti-Semite [0]. Why is it so difficult to rename stuff? Programmers managed to rename millions of branches from `master` to `main`, just for consistency with their values. I believe a nation should be able to rename a couple of thousand street names and schools as well.. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Ludwig_Jahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Ludwig_Jahn
- molteanu 3y ago
  The name is just "Jahn" in the openstreet map data. Can it refer to somebody else?
  - Helmut10001 3y ago
    Every second street name (primarily in front of schools) is named [Friedrich Ludwig] Jahn here. He is often also only referred to by "Jahn" (e.g. "Jahn School"), so I doubt there is any ambiguity in the data. Other examples are `Jahnweg`, `Jahnstrasse`, `Jahnstiege`, all referring to the same person.
    - snehk 3y ago
      The number is 93 if you parse the data from Geofabrik.
      - molteanu 3y ago
        I think you are referring to ""Friedrich-Ludwig-Jahn", directly. I've also considered "Jahn" and "F.-L.-Jahn" to be the same as the above. That is why it goes higher. To 1873, to be exactly. As I am not from Germany, though, I am more than willing to adjust it, if there is consensus on it.
smokel 3y ago
In the list for The Netherlands, the Dutch painter "Jan Steen" scores remarkably high. If I understand equivalents.js correctly, this is probably due to the many occurrences of a "Steenstraat", which typically refers to the first street being paved ("steen" is Dutch for stone), and not to the painter.
- molteanu 3y ago
  Yes, Steen is (currently) considered to be the same as Jan Steen. That's the kind of info that I'm missing not being thoroughly knowledgeable with each country's culture. Fortunately, it is easy to remedy from the equivalents.js file, as you correctly noticed. I'll modify it and see what comes out. Thank you for your input.
  - molteanu 3y ago
    Jas Steen goes from 200 to 127, without the equivalent.
    - smokel 3y ago
      Haha, that's nice, thank you for this! I feel a bit awkward for not reaching out directly, and using Hacker News as a large intercom to voice bug reports :)
larsrc 3y ago
Apart from the data processing problems already mentioned, there is also a possible bias towards locally-known artists. For Denmark, one of the top scorers is Niels Bjerre, who is fairly obscure in Denmark at large. But if he was well liked in a number of smaller towns that were growing at the right time, he could get streets named for him many times over, while the bar in big cities would be much higher.
- molteanu 3y ago
  I think you are talking about the problem of considering just one person / city. Big cities can have schools, squares, streets, etc all named after a single person. But they will all be considered as a count of 1. So one city of, say, 2 million has the same "vote" as a small town of 10.000. If that's is what you're thinking about, then yes, you are correct. What happens in the osm data, though, is that the exact same street can be tagged multiple times, sometimes with slightly different names by different users. That would result in dozen of occurrences for the same person even though there is just one street named after them. The one person/city is a way to avoid that. With the unintended consequences, as you've mentioned, unfortunately.
Ekaros 3y ago
Checked this for Finland. I doubt the two top are correct associations. Kallio does not always refer to person, but is word for visible rock in ground or in mountain. Same goes for kivi which is also a rock. These are for reason common enough surnames. With some famous people associated with them. Third one Mannerheim is the real winner. So I could guess there is same issue in also other places.
- molteanu 3y ago
  Of course there are issues and limitation. I am only 99% confident in my own country and culture (Romania). That's what we've learnt in school, that is what we know. There is also a strong German and French influence so those names I've heard as well. This is still just a one-man project. I can warmly invite you to contribute to the github project. Feel free to open a PR. I value the knowledge of natives more than my own. I often time can only guess. Thank you for your comment.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Don't discount the effects of damnatio memoriae. There have been quite famous men whose name was affixed to major monuments and streets, but having fallen out of favor or becoming quite notorious instead, their names are effaced from the public records, in order to rewrite a more genteel and positive history. For example, my town recently completed a public campaign to rename anything that bore the name of a KKK member. Of course, the town was founded and built on top of Native American land by Freemasons, KKK, and Odd Fellows, but they don't count anymore.
- molteanu 3y ago
  Yes, that is quite true. The most recent example that I could find is with the current conflict in Ukraine, https://www.wionews.com/world/zelenskyy-signs-law-banning-russian-place-names-in-ukraine-aims-to-restore-national-identity-585227 https://www.wionews.com/world/zelenskyy-signs-law-banning-ru... But there are countless examples recorded instances in history, Street Names and Political Identity: The Case of East Berlin (https://www.jstor.org/stable/260587 https://www.jstor.org/stable/260587), Street Names in Colonial Singapore (https://www.jstor.org/stable/215354 https://www.jstor.org/stable/215354) Street names and political regimes in an andalusian town (https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.2307/3774079 https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.2307/3774079) From Classic to Classy: Changing Fashions in Street Names ( https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/870/869 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/870/869) TRACING THE HISTORY OF TEL AVIV THROUGH ITS STREET NAMES ( https://www.israel21c.org/tracing-the-history-of-tel-aviv-through-its-street-names/ https://www.israel21c.org/tracing-the-history-of-tel-aviv-th...) Naming city streets—A chapter in the history of Tel-Aviv, 1909–1947 ( https://www.academia.edu/download/67078055/bf0296557020210504-21789-1dwfz7.pdf https://www.academia.edu/download/67078055/bf029655702021050...) Cultural-geographical aspects of street names in the towns of Israel ( http://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/1226/1225 http://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/1226/1225) Street Names in Beirut, Lebanon ( https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/790/789 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/790/789) Street Names in Baghdad, Iraq (Part I & Part II) ( https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/393/392 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/393/392, https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/405/404 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/405/404) There are probably more. The study of naming places has, indeed, a long history. From personal experience, after having skimmed through more than 13.000 wikipedia entries for this project, most of the names are, surprisingly for me, of national heroes, political leaders and religious figures. Science and the arts are way lower than I've expected.
dalke 3y ago
If I understand https://github.com/mihaiolteanu/ulitza/blob/7df974105aaf97767b6c67102d4326b28de43513/eponyms/sweden.json#L389 https://github.com/mihaiolteanu/ulitza/blob/7df974105aaf9776... correctly, it means the 9 mentions of "Polhem" are ignored. I think it should point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Polhem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Polhem "Bellmans" very likely refers to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Michael_Bellman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Michael_Bellman Ulricehamn is named in honour of Queen Ulrica Eleonora, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulricehamn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulricehamn but I can see how a street containing "Ulricehamn" may be more directly named after the city. "Sankt Pers" is an older Swedish term for St. Peter. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrus https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrus "Sankt Eriks" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_IX_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_IX_of_Sweden "Nordenskiölds" is difficult since it can refer to several members of the family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenski%C3%B6ld_(surname) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenski%C3%B6ld_(surname) including (and most likely) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Erik_Nordenski%C3%B6ld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Erik_Nordenski%C3%B6ld . "Olof Palme" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme with at least 5 streets in Google Maps (the entry has a "3", which I guess is the number of entries in the source data). "Strindberg" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Strindberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Strindberg The Tegnérsgatan in Stockholm is named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esaias_Tegn%C3%A9r https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esaias_Tegn%C3%A9r (connection written at https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegn%C3%A9rgatan https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegn%C3%A9rgatan). There are at least 5 different cities with a Tegnérsgatan. Also, in the US data "Santa Fe", "St. Francis", and "San Francisco" all refer to Saint Francis of Assisi. "The name "Santa Fe" means 'Holy Faith' in Spanish, and the city's full name as founded remains La Villa Real de la Santa Fé de San Francisco de Asís ('The Royal Town of the Holy Faith of Saint Francis of Assisi').[5][6]" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe%2C_New_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe%2C_New_Mexico "San Francisco was founded on June 29, 1776, when settlers from New Spain established the Presidio of San Francisco at the Golden Gate, and the Mission San Francisco de Asís a few miles away, both named for Francis of Assisi." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco "Sir Francis Drake" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake . The author has take on a very heavy mantle. This is not a task that can easily be automated. Two streets with the same name may easily be named after two different people.
defrost 3y ago
I'm pretty sure the multitude of roads, rivers, and national parks in Western Australia named Fitzgerald are after the 1840s governor of Western Australia Charles Fitzgerald and not the US singer Ella Fitzgerald (1917-1996) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fitzgerald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fitzgerald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Fitzgerald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Fitzgerald more's the pity.
- molteanu 3y ago
  Would you consider making a pull request?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Your path forward here is global crowd sourcing local knowledge of placenames, documenting disputes and reasons for change, and a system of judgement tied back to regional hubs of naming authority (which themselves can get muddled by time). You don't get that with pull requests. Many of the people who care most about this kind of data set and it's integrity will not be git - savy.
    - molteanu 3y ago
      It's worth taking a shot at it, at least.
      - defrost 3y ago
        No drama, thank you for asking, and I can assure 100% that no Fitzgerald features in Westeran Australia were named after Ella F. and very likely no Australia features older than now - 50 years were either. I think your datbase is worthy of improvement, I do not think that git operations from program savy viewers is the best way to refine it. Hypothetically, what's the best framework for harnessing the wisdom of the masses? Is that a product|project you can leverage|develop to open crowd source better { feature name <--> namesake } mapping across global locales?

12 points by molteanu 3y ago

Ranked fourth for Germany, a nationalist and likely an anti-Semite [0]. Why is it so difficult to rename stuff? Programmers managed to rename millions of branches from `master` to `main`, just for consistency with their values. I believe a nation should be able to rename a couple of thousand street names and schools as well.. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Ludwig_Jahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Ludwig_Jahn

molteanu 3y ago
The name is just "Jahn" in the openstreet map data. Can it refer to somebody else?
- Helmut10001 3y ago
  Every second street name (primarily in front of schools) is named [Friedrich Ludwig] Jahn here. He is often also only referred to by "Jahn" (e.g. "Jahn School"), so I doubt there is any ambiguity in the data. Other examples are `Jahnweg`, `Jahnstrasse`, `Jahnstiege`, all referring to the same person.
  - snehk 3y ago
    The number is 93 if you parse the data from Geofabrik.
    - molteanu 3y ago
      I think you are referring to ""Friedrich-Ludwig-Jahn", directly. I've also considered "Jahn" and "F.-L.-Jahn" to be the same as the above. That is why it goes higher. To 1873, to be exactly. As I am not from Germany, though, I am more than willing to adjust it, if there is consensus on it.

smokel 3y ago

In the list for The Netherlands, the Dutch painter "Jan Steen" scores remarkably high. If I understand equivalents.js correctly, this is probably due to the many occurrences of a "Steenstraat", which typically refers to the first street being paved ("steen" is Dutch for stone), and not to the painter.

molteanu 3y ago
Yes, Steen is (currently) considered to be the same as Jan Steen. That's the kind of info that I'm missing not being thoroughly knowledgeable with each country's culture. Fortunately, it is easy to remedy from the equivalents.js file, as you correctly noticed. I'll modify it and see what comes out. Thank you for your input.
- molteanu 3y ago
  Jas Steen goes from 200 to 127, without the equivalent.
  - smokel 3y ago
    Haha, that's nice, thank you for this! I feel a bit awkward for not reaching out directly, and using Hacker News as a large intercom to voice bug reports :)

larsrc 3y ago

Apart from the data processing problems already mentioned, there is also a possible bias towards locally-known artists. For Denmark, one of the top scorers is Niels Bjerre, who is fairly obscure in Denmark at large. But if he was well liked in a number of smaller towns that were growing at the right time, he could get streets named for him many times over, while the bar in big cities would be much higher.

molteanu 3y ago
I think you are talking about the problem of considering just one person / city. Big cities can have schools, squares, streets, etc all named after a single person. But they will all be considered as a count of 1. So one city of, say, 2 million has the same "vote" as a small town of 10.000. If that's is what you're thinking about, then yes, you are correct. What happens in the osm data, though, is that the exact same street can be tagged multiple times, sometimes with slightly different names by different users. That would result in dozen of occurrences for the same person even though there is just one street named after them. The one person/city is a way to avoid that. With the unintended consequences, as you've mentioned, unfortunately.

Ekaros 3y ago

Checked this for Finland. I doubt the two top are correct associations. Kallio does not always refer to person, but is word for visible rock in ground or in mountain. Same goes for kivi which is also a rock. These are for reason common enough surnames. With some famous people associated with them. Third one Mannerheim is the real winner. So I could guess there is same issue in also other places.

molteanu 3y ago
Of course there are issues and limitation. I am only 99% confident in my own country and culture (Romania). That's what we've learnt in school, that is what we know. There is also a strong German and French influence so those names I've heard as well. This is still just a one-man project. I can warmly invite you to contribute to the github project. Feel free to open a PR. I value the knowledge of natives more than my own. I often time can only guess. Thank you for your comment.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

Don't discount the effects of damnatio memoriae. There have been quite famous men whose name was affixed to major monuments and streets, but having fallen out of favor or becoming quite notorious instead, their names are effaced from the public records, in order to rewrite a more genteel and positive history. For example, my town recently completed a public campaign to rename anything that bore the name of a KKK member. Of course, the town was founded and built on top of Native American land by Freemasons, KKK, and Odd Fellows, but they don't count anymore.

molteanu 3y ago
Yes, that is quite true. The most recent example that I could find is with the current conflict in Ukraine, https://www.wionews.com/world/zelenskyy-signs-law-banning-russian-place-names-in-ukraine-aims-to-restore-national-identity-585227 https://www.wionews.com/world/zelenskyy-signs-law-banning-ru... But there are countless examples recorded instances in history, Street Names and Political Identity: The Case of East Berlin (https://www.jstor.org/stable/260587 https://www.jstor.org/stable/260587), Street Names in Colonial Singapore (https://www.jstor.org/stable/215354 https://www.jstor.org/stable/215354) Street names and political regimes in an andalusian town (https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.2307/3774079 https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.2307/3774079) From Classic to Classy: Changing Fashions in Street Names ( https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/870/869 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/870/869) TRACING THE HISTORY OF TEL AVIV THROUGH ITS STREET NAMES ( https://www.israel21c.org/tracing-the-history-of-tel-aviv-through-its-street-names/ https://www.israel21c.org/tracing-the-history-of-tel-aviv-th...) Naming city streets—A chapter in the history of Tel-Aviv, 1909–1947 ( https://www.academia.edu/download/67078055/bf0296557020210504-21789-1dwfz7.pdf https://www.academia.edu/download/67078055/bf029655702021050...) Cultural-geographical aspects of street names in the towns of Israel ( http://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/1226/1225 http://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/1226/1225) Street Names in Beirut, Lebanon ( https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/790/789 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/790/789) Street Names in Baghdad, Iraq (Part I & Part II) ( https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/393/392 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/393/392, https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/405/404 https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/405/404) There are probably more. The study of naming places has, indeed, a long history. From personal experience, after having skimmed through more than 13.000 wikipedia entries for this project, most of the names are, surprisingly for me, of national heroes, political leaders and religious figures. Science and the arts are way lower than I've expected.

dalke 3y ago

If I understand https://github.com/mihaiolteanu/ulitza/blob/7df974105aaf97767b6c67102d4326b28de43513/eponyms/sweden.json#L389 https://github.com/mihaiolteanu/ulitza/blob/7df974105aaf9776... correctly, it means the 9 mentions of "Polhem" are ignored. I think it should point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Polhem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Polhem "Bellmans" very likely refers to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Michael_Bellman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Michael_Bellman Ulricehamn is named in honour of Queen Ulrica Eleonora, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulricehamn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulricehamn but I can see how a street containing "Ulricehamn" may be more directly named after the city. "Sankt Pers" is an older Swedish term for St. Peter. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrus https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrus "Sankt Eriks" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_IX_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_IX_of_Sweden "Nordenskiölds" is difficult since it can refer to several members of the family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenski%C3%B6ld_(surname) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenski%C3%B6ld_(surname) including (and most likely) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Erik_Nordenski%C3%B6ld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Erik_Nordenski%C3%B6ld . "Olof Palme" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme with at least 5 streets in Google Maps (the entry has a "3", which I guess is the number of entries in the source data). "Strindberg" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Strindberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Strindberg The Tegnérsgatan in Stockholm is named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esaias_Tegn%C3%A9r https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esaias_Tegn%C3%A9r (connection written at https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegn%C3%A9rgatan https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegn%C3%A9rgatan). There are at least 5 different cities with a Tegnérsgatan. Also, in the US data "Santa Fe", "St. Francis", and "San Francisco" all refer to Saint Francis of Assisi. "The name "Santa Fe" means 'Holy Faith' in Spanish, and the city's full name as founded remains La Villa Real de la Santa Fé de San Francisco de Asís ('The Royal Town of the Holy Faith of Saint Francis of Assisi').[5][6]" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe%2C_New_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe%2C_New_Mexico "San Francisco was founded on June 29, 1776, when settlers from New Spain established the Presidio of San Francisco at the Golden Gate, and the Mission San Francisco de Asís a few miles away, both named for Francis of Assisi." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco "Sir Francis Drake" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake . The author has take on a very heavy mantle. This is not a task that can easily be automated. Two streets with the same name may easily be named after two different people.

defrost 3y ago

I'm pretty sure the multitude of roads, rivers, and national parks in Western Australia named Fitzgerald are after the 1840s governor of Western Australia Charles Fitzgerald and not the US singer Ella Fitzgerald (1917-1996) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fitzgerald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fitzgerald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Fitzgerald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Fitzgerald more's the pity.

molteanu 3y ago
Would you consider making a pull request?
- defrost 3y ago
  Your path forward here is global crowd sourcing local knowledge of placenames, documenting disputes and reasons for change, and a system of judgement tied back to regional hubs of naming authority (which themselves can get muddled by time). You don't get that with pull requests. Many of the people who care most about this kind of data set and it's integrity will not be git - savy.
  - molteanu 3y ago
    It's worth taking a shot at it, at least.
    - defrost 3y ago
      No drama, thank you for asking, and I can assure 100% that no Fitzgerald features in Westeran Australia were named after Ella F. and very likely no Australia features older than now - 50 years were either. I think your datbase is worthy of improvement, I do not think that git operations from program savy viewers is the best way to refine it. Hypothetically, what's the best framework for harnessing the wisdom of the masses? Is that a product|project you can leverage|develop to open crowd source better { feature name <--> namesake } mapping across global locales?